Did I receive the right apple tree?

[GF3]

Hello.
I bought a "Red Windsor" apple tree on M26 rootstock in November 2019 from Chris Bowers. This is the first year it flowered and it has produced 3 apples. One apple fell off yesterday (7th September). But I am not convinced it is a Red Windsor. I've seen a few videos on Youtube and have looked at many images of Red Windsor apples in google image search and mine doesn't look like them.
I have tasted the one that fell off and it was quite hard and very dry taste - i did not like it. If this is not a Red Windsor any idea what it might be. The tree was labled "Red Windsor" when I received it. I have attached photos of one of the apples still on the tree and a photo of the one that fell off yesterday.

[ameno]

Your apples do look more elongated that Red Windsor usually is, but doesn't necessarily mean anything, as trees can often produce oddly-shaped apples.
As for the taste, I suspect it just wasn't ripe. Just because it fell off, doesn't necessarily mean it was ripe. Prematurely shed fruit are usually shed either because the tree is under stress, or because the fruit is compromised is some way (insect damage, usually).

On the other hand, you did buy it from Chris Bowers, who are less than reliable and trustworthy. I bought two trees from them before, one of which definitely wasn't the labelled variety as it wasn't even the right species, and the other of which was very weedy. Yet it took a lot of fighting to get them to refund me. They also sell a suspiciously large number of varieties, on a suspiciously broad range of rootstocks, at suspiciously low prices, which makes me suspect that their true range is actually rather smaller, and they are simply passing off what they do have as other varieties and rootstocks.

[FB.]

..... Chris Bowers. ....

......less than reliable and trustworthy......... they are simply passing off what they do have as other varieties and rootstocks

/\ This /\

I won't buy from Chris Bowers.

[nickdub]

As there are few apple varieties with a dark red skin it might be worth a look on the Chris Bowers site to see if they offer any other similar ones. If yours is not Red Windsor, and they sell another dark red variety, then I'd say the chances are that's what you have.

[GF3]

Many thanks for the replies.

As there are few apple varieties with a dark red skin it might be worth a look on the Chris Bowers site to see if they offer any other similar ones. If yours is not Red Windsor, and they sell another dark red variety, then I'd say the chances are that's what you have.

I have checked their web site to see what other red apples they offer. And my best guess is that it is the "Red Delicious" they have sent me. Which is a variety that is not very well regarded by people. I certainly would never have considered buying that variety! It does not have anything going for it in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. There are videoes on Youtube of people ranting on about how bad this apple is (shop bought ones). Apparently there are 42 patented sports of this apple in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Delicious
Here is a photo of a Red Delicious and a photo of a Red Windsor. Do you think I have a good enough case to ask them for a replacement?

[boundtothesoil]

I agree with others that CB is to be avoided if you really need to receive the variety you ordered. I've bought many wrongly labelled trees over the years, My impression is that errors in variety labelling by both specialist UK nurseries and cheap supermarket trees (mainly Dutch sourced?) are increasing over time. I guess that when selling to the amateur/ home gardener market, suppliers don't care much about dribs and drabs of negative feedback. I wonder what level of quality control on labelling they have out in the field, given it is pretty impossible to discriminate between varieties on the basis of leafless one or two year old grafted/budded trees.

[nickdub]

Many thanks for the replies.



I have checked their web site to see what other red apples they offer. And my best guess is that it is the "Red Delicious" they have sent me. Which is a variety that is not very well regarded by people. I certainly would never have considered buying that variety! It does not have anything going for it in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. There are videoes on Youtube of people ranting on about how bad this apple is (shop bought ones). Apparently there are 42 patented sports of this apple in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Delicious
Here is a photo of a Red Delicious and a photo of a Red Windsor. Do you think I have a good enough case to ask them for a replacement?

I've not grown Red Delicious myself, so I can't comment directly. I have found that shop bought varieties of Apple can be much less tasty than the same variety grown and ripened properly at home.

As for refunds, if you don't ask, then you don't get.

[GF3]

Thanks for all the replies to my post.
I think I shall wait and see how the other two apples develop over the next few weeks. If it is a Red Delicious then they are ready mid October. It may still be a Red Windsor - as ameno pointed out in his reply - trees can produce oddly shapped apples, and the one that fell off this week may be a premature faller, hence the tough skin, hardness and lack of taste. Could it produce 3 apples and all 3 look nothing like a normal Red Windsor? The tree only cost £20 so I'm not bothered about the money I paid. But it is the fact that I spent hours researching various apple varieties before deciding on the Red Windsor, and waiting two years for it to produce an apple only to find it "may" not be the tree I thought I was buying, it's that I find most annoying. I also bought a Plum Tree from Chris Bowers at the same time - it should be Blue Tit on a pixy rootstock - it hasn't produce any fruit yet !!

[ameno]

I've not grown Red Delicious myself, so I can't comment directly. I have found that shop bought varieties of Apple can be much less tasty than the same variety grown and ripened properly at home.

As for refunds, if you don't ask, then you don't get.

To be honest, with Chris Bowers, I highly doubt you'll get one.
I had to fight hard for my refund and it was on trees which had only just arrived. And they insisted on them being sent Back (thankfully at their expense), whereas when I've had tree or shrub complaints with other mail order companies they've only asked for photos and then told me to keep or dispose of the tree as I see fit (bare root trees can't be resold, after all, as they will no longer be viable by the time they get back to the seller).

As for Red Delicious, it's a red sport of Golden Delicious, so tastes exactly the same (which personally I think is pretty mediocre, not to mention hard, which is something I'm not keen on in apples). More importantly, they don't ripen properly in this country. The summers are not warm and long enough.

[FB.]

As for Red Delicious, it's a red sport of Golden Delicious, so tastes exactly the same

They are different varieties, not sports of each other.
Someone I know has a Golden Delicious in their garden and it produces tasty apples in our climate (mild, dry, sunny climate).
I've grown a few of the Red Delicious relatives and they're tasty in my climate, too.

In fact, here apples ripen much earlier than the books say they should and I'm looking into adding a few more varieties which are considered unsuitable for the UK climate.

[Randommoose]

I have Cevaal which, from what I read at the time is another name for Red Windsor. Its apples look exactly like the link of the place I got it from (https://walcotnursery.co.uk/product/cevaal/). It is an early variety and finished weeks ago in Gloucestershire. I've attached a picture of the last wrinkly one from the fruit bowl!

[Randommoose]

Also one quite distinctive feature of my Cevaal is that the apple stems are really short so the fruit all grow crammed together close to the branch.

It doesn't look like your apple in shape or colouration.

[GF3]

Thank you for your post.
Yes, both the Red Windsor and the Cevaal are the "Red Alkmene". And my apple is clearly nothing like them. And both my apples are still securly attached to the tree. If the variety is, as I suspect, Red Delicious - then it will be ready in mid October.

How do you rate the variety? I am considering buying it again.

[Randommoose]

I like it - it has a good flavour and is reasonably crisp and juicy to me. My favourite variety is Red Falstaff and I dislike very acid varieties (like Granny Smith) if that helps with knowing my tastes.

It is healthy, a good grower though not tall (on M26) but stocky and vase shaped with thick trunk branches even on new growth. It doesn't seem too prone to pests - it gets aphids but outgrows them with no help (I squished some in the first year), some apples get pecked by birds or rot (probably from being crammed together - I did thin but need to do that better next year). I planted mine in Jan 2019 as a bareroot feathered one year old and have had fruit every year since. My soil is loam over clay and it was planted into a poor lawn, soil not improved, not fertilised until a couple of doses of seaweed this year and only watered in the first year and subsequently in drought/very hot weather. It has a 1m circle free of grass cut around it and covered in wood chip.

In summary it is easy to grow, looks good and tastes nice!

[GF3]

Thanks for your reply.
Before buying the "Red windsor" I read as much as I could about the various varieties and rootstocks - the pros and cons of each. And I arrived at 2 varieties to choose from - Red Windsor and the other was Red Falstaff. I eventually went with the Red Windsor on M26 (or thought I had!). So now I am deciding if I should relocate the apple I was sent to another part of the garden (the location it currently occupies is a good spot) and replace it with Red Windsor or maybe try the Red Falstaff this time. And I'm thinking of getting it on MM106 ( I have a Lord Lambourne on that rootstock).
Thanks again.