Why are my Espalier Tree's not Fruiting?

[Mcintosh85]

Evening all,

I hope this post is in the correct forum, and that someone can offer some advice.

I planted some espalier fruit trees in the garden 5 years ago, and every year they fail to fruit. That is not strictly true, this year one of the apple trees produced 2 apples. But as good as zero in 5 years!. 5 trees have been planted, 3 plum and 2 apple, in the following order: Plum / Apple / Plum / Apple / Plum

What I do not understand is that the plum trees grow like crazy, yet still fail to fruit. The apple trees, whilst grown, have not taken anywhere near as well as the plums. They are planted along a fence line facing North East.

I cannot remember the variety of plum or apple, but they were suggested to me as pollinating well together. The apple trees are the same variety of another apple tree a planted (tree not espalier), which sits only a few metes away and fruits very well every year.

A couple of pictures attached. Would welcome any advice on what I can hopefully do to rectify the situation!

[Mcintosh85]

A couple more pictures, including the apple tree which does fruit very well.

[ameno]

Well, north-east is about the worst direction they can face, so that surely can't help.

To try and diagnose further, few questions:
-Do they flower in the spring, and if so how much?
-Where in the country do you live?
-Do you remember what rootstocks they are on?
-Do you feed them each year?

[Jungle Jane]

Did you top the central leader? Then they should put their energy into the trained branches as leader branches. My Victoria plum was east facing,it was fine fruited well,sun a few hours in the morning,the top leaves getting sun most of the day.

[Mcintosh85]

Well, north-east is about the worst direction they can face, so that surely can't help.

To try and diagnose further, few questions:
-Do they flower in the spring, and if so how much?
-Where in the country do you live?
-Do you remember what rootstocks they are on?
-Do you feed them each year?

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, agree the direction is not great. However, and I forgot to mention, a neighbour has plum espalier on the same NE facing boundary, and they fruit very well.

Yes, they both flower, what I would consider well. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures though.

I live in Northamptonshire.

No, I have never fed them.

I have managed to dig out the original email for the order.

They were ordered from chrisbowers.co.uk in Dec 2017

1 X apples_redwindsor, (B) Red Windsor Apple Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training
1 X apples_falstaff_red, (B) Red Falstaff Apple Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training
3 X plum_victoria, Victoria Plum Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training

Not sure if the above helps with the rootstock?

[Mcintosh85]

Did you top the central leader? Then they should put their energy into the trained branches as leader branches. My Victoria plum was east facing,it was fine fruited well,sun a few hours in the morning,the top leaves getting sun most of the day.

I did trim annually, but this year I followed a vid on youtube and cut back quite hard. The growth since has been phenomenal, just no fruit.

[ameno]

I did trim annually, but this year I followed a vid on youtube and cut back quite hard. The growth since has been phenomenal, just no fruit.

Never cut plums back too hard. They always respond with lots of green growth, at the expense of fruit.

Yes, they both flower, what I would consider well. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures though.

Do they get hit by late frosts during or just after flowering?

I have managed to dig out the original email for the order.

They were ordered from chrisbowers.co.uk in Dec 2017

1 X apples_redwindsor, (B) Red Windsor Apple Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training
1 X apples_falstaff_red, (B) Red Falstaff Apple Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training
3 X plum_victoria, Victoria Plum Trees skew:Selection: Fan - selected trees for training

Not sure if the above helps with the rootstock?

I fear this may actually be your biggest problem, however.
Chris Bowers are con merchants.
They claim to offer a huge range of tree varieties on every rootstock available, all for low prices. This sounds too good to be true, and of course it is.
In reality, they stock a very limited range and try to pass off other varieties and other rootstocks as the claimed ones, knowing that most customers will not know the difference, and even if they do realise eventually, will probably not end up complaining (they respond very belligerently if you try to complain, too).

So your trees are very likely not the claimed varieties. In the case of the plums, specifically, they may well all be the same variety and not be Victoria. Victoria is self-fertile, but many plum varieties are not. If you have three of the same self-sterile plum variety then they will never set fruit unless there is another plum of a different variety in a nearby garden.

The apples may well also not be the claimed variety, but since you already have an apple tree then pollination should not be an issue (assuming they all flower at the same time). Do the apples flower, too? They might just need feeding up a bit, as they are very weedy. Some varieties are also just a bit slow to fruit. I bought another tree 5 or 6 years ago, and this is the first year it has produced more than half a dozen fruit, even though it has flowered every year since planting
Don't feed the plums, though. They're vigorous enough as it is; they don't need any more help.

[Jungle Jane]

I would feed all the trees for health & disease protection. Plums grow on year old or older wood,maybe the hard pruning affected this but next year you should get plums. Potassium helps flowers & fruit,I give my tree BFB it’s an all round slow release fertiliser,can give some early spring.

[Mcintosh85]

Never cut plums back too hard. They always respond with lots of green growth, at the expense of fruit.



Do they get hit by late frosts during or just after flowering?




I fear this may actually be your biggest problem, however.
Chris Bowers are con merchants.
They claim to offer a huge range of tree varieties on every rootstock available, all for low prices. This sounds too good to be true, and of course it is.
In reality, they stock a very limited range and try to pass off other varieties and other rootstocks as the claimed ones, knowing that most customers will not know the difference, and even if they do realise eventually, will probably not end up complaining (they respond very belligerently if you try to complain, too).

So your trees are very likely not the claimed varieties. In the case of the plums, specifically, they may well all be the same variety and not be Victoria. Victoria is self-fertile, but many plum varieties are not. If you have three of the same self-sterile plum variety then they will never set fruit unless there is another plum of a different variety in a nearby garden.

The apples may well also not be the claimed variety, but since you already have an apple tree then pollination should not be an issue (assuming they all flower at the same time). Do the apples flower, too? They might just need feeding up a bit, as they are very weedy. Some varieties are also just a bit slow to fruit. I bought another tree 5 or 6 years ago, and this is the first year it has produced more than half a dozen fruit, even though it has flowered every year since planting
Don't feed the plums, though. They're vigorous enough as it is; they don't need any more help.

I do not believe they have been hit by a late frost during or just after flowering. It may have happened once or twice, certainly not every year. Would that If it did occur, say, 5 years ago, would that affect fruiting now? Or just the year the frost hit them after flowering?

I wish I had know that about Chris Bowers! Not much I can do now.

The 3 plums were all ordered as the same variety, so maybe that isn't helping. Although if they have sold me another variety I will never know.

I do know there is the plum in the neighbours garden, but they are not sure of the variety. They planted it about 25 years ago now, so very well established. Is there anything I can do to maybe spur these along? Plant another plumb bush? If so, any particular variety?

Yes the apples flower. Any suggestions for feed, and when?

[Mcintosh85]

I would feed all the trees for health & disease protection. Plums grow on year old or older wood,maybe the hard pruning affected this but next year you should get plums. Potassium helps flowers & fruit,I give my tree BFB it’s an all round slow release fertiliser,can give some early spring.

Any particular supplier for the BFB? Interesting you say to feed the plums too. Do you think they need it?

Would you recommend just the one feed in early spring?

Regarding the pruning, do you suggest no pruning for the next year then? The plums have grown a lot and too me look like they need another trim?

[ameno]

Bush trained plum trees are usually pruned by shortened all new growth by about two-thirds in late summer. Fan and espalier trained trees need slightly different pruning, but you can still follow broadly the same regime, with the exception of leaving branches you want to use to extend the framework unpruned.

[Mcintosh85]

Bush trained plum trees are usually pruned by shortened all new growth by about two-thirds in late summer. Fan and espalier trained trees need slightly different pruning, but you can still follow broadly the same regime, with the exception of leaving branches you want to use to extend the framework unpruned.

For reference this is the video I was sent last year and followed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKiDItwCR_o&t=505s

There has been an awful lot of growth this year, so by following the same principle again, a lot will come off.

Whether or not the pruning is too hard may be one thing, but the fact that years prior I have not pruned as much suggests its probably not the main reason

Is it worth me looking at planting a different variety of plum elsewhere to try and get these fruiting? If so, any suggestions on variety?

[Jungle Jane]

Any particular supplier for the BFB? Interesting you say to feed the plums too. Do you think they need it?

Would you recommend just the one feed in early spring?

Regarding the pruning, do you suggest no pruning for the next year then? The plums have grown a lot and too me look like they need another trim?

I would reduce the height with pruning next year,they should have fruit on the tree by then,plum trees are at risk of silver leaf disease & best pruned in the summer so they dry & heal quicker. My Victoria got silver leaf,the weight of fruit split the branch I was unaware until it fruited & ripened very fast,you could tell something was wrong,mine was free standing,no support,yours has support which is really good treatment will help the weight of fruit,your trees are very young..
Any BFB from garden centre will be good. I would fertilise because they need the nutrients in the soil,it must be lacking because of not having anything for five years of growth & because of no fruit production. I only feed once in the spring when growth is imminent. If there’s fruit on the trees I do a liquid feed with tomato fertiliser for fast nutrient,potassium helps bulk out the fruits & you should have a lot of that soon

[Mcintosh85]

I would reduce the height with pruning next year,they should have fruit on the tree by then,plum trees are at risk of silver leaf disease & best pruned in the summer so they dry & heal quicker. My Victoria got silver leaf,the weight of fruit split the branch I was unaware until it fruited & ripened very fast,you could tell something was wrong,mine was free standing,no support,yours has support which is really good treatment will help the weight of fruit,your trees are very young..
Any BFB from garden centre will be good. I would fertilise because they need the nutrients in the soil,it must be lacking because of not having anything for five years of growth & because of no fruit production. I only feed once in the spring when growth is imminent. If there’s fruit on the trees I do a liquid feed with tomato fertiliser for fast nutrient,potassium helps bulk out the fruits & you should have a lot of that soon

What makes you think they should have fruit on the trees by next year?

[Jungle Jane]

What makes you think they should have fruit on the trees by next year?

It’s the natural behaviour for fruit trees to produce fruit after flowering,your trees have been young,fertiliser will give the trees the nutrients they need,non pruning of the fruiting areas of the branches,you’ll have year old wood for the plums to grow on. It would be interesting to check after the flowering,they should have some little fruitlets in their place. Victoria plum will grow full size plums with no help,other plum varieties that aren’t self fertile may drop the fruit or the fruit stays tiny if not correctly pollinated.