Why are my Espalier Tree's not Fruiting?

[ameno]

Is it worth me looking at planting a different variety of plum elsewhere to try and get these fruiting? If so, any suggestions on variety?

It may be worth a try. Victoria is probably actually the best choice (assuming these ones you have actually aren't Victoria), as it is reliably self-fertile.

Any BFB from garden centre will be good. I would fertilise because they need the nutrients in the soil,it must be lacking because of not having anything for five years of growth & because of no fruit production. I only feed once in the spring when growth is imminent. If there’s fruit on the trees I do a liquid feed with tomato fertiliser for fast nutrient,potassium helps bulk out the fruits & you should have a lot of that soon

As a general rule, most fruit trees grown on good soil only really need feeding for the first couple of years, and after that have spread their roots far enough to find their own nutrients (the exception being those on very dwarfing rootstocks).

An easy test is just to judge it based on how much the tree grew the previous year. If the tree put on plenty of strong new growth (like those plums have), it does not need feeding, and indeed giving it further nutrients is likely to be detrimental to fruiting, as it will encourage vegetative growth at the cost of fruit.
If, on the other hand, it hasn't grown much and looks a bit weedy (like those apples do), then it does need feeding.

I would certainly recommend avoiding giving anything with nitrogen in to the plums. Sulphate of potash might be helpful for them, though, as this helps to feed fruit (although they probably don't actually need it).
The apples definitely need a more general fertiliser, like blood, fish & bone, growmore, or poultry manure, though.

[Mcintosh85]

It’s the natural behaviour for fruit trees to produce fruit after flowering,your trees have been young,fertiliser will give the trees the nutrients they need,non pruning of the fruiting areas of the branches,you’ll have year old wood for the plums to grow on. It would be interesting to check after the flowering,they should have some little fruitlets in their place. Victoria plum will grow full size plums with no help,other plum varieties that aren’t self fertile may drop the fruit or the fruit stays tiny if not correctly pollinated.

Ok. I'm just not sure as they have been in 6.5 years. So surely should have fruited by now? Hence why I wonder if anything else I need to do, like plant another variety to help polination.

[Mcintosh85]

It may be worth a try. Victoria is probably actually the best choice (assuming these ones you have actually aren't Victoria), as it is reliably self-fertile.



As a general rule, most fruit trees grown on good soil only really need feeding for the first couple of years, and after that have spread their roots far enough to find their own nutrients (the exception being those on very dwarfing rootstocks).

An easy test is just to judge it based on how much the tree grew the previous year. If the tree put on plenty of strong new growth (like those plums have), it does not need feeding, and indeed giving it further nutrients is likely to be detrimental to fruiting, as it will encourage vegetative growth at the cost of fruit.
If, on the other hand, it hasn't grown much and looks a bit weedy (like those apples do), then it does need feeding.

I would certainly recommend avoiding giving anything with nitrogen in to the plums. Sulphate of potash might be helpful for them, though, as this helps to feed fruit (although they probably don't actually need it).
The apples definitely need a more general fertiliser, like blood, fish & bone, growmore, or poultry manure, though.

thankyou.

I'll get some BFB and feed the apples in the spring next year.

[ChingfordHarry]

At a slight tangent to other posters, I'd be tempted to graft other known varieties onto the espaliers that you have. If you lack the skills yourself, if there's a local gardening club or similar there's almost bound to be someone nearby who would be able to do it for you (probably for the price of a cup of tea). My personal preference would be to have three different plums - Victorias are good, but variety is the spice of life.

Just read Ameno's comment re: Chris Bowers - although I wouldn't put in in quite those terms, they did sell me a couple of apples on M9 rootstock that turned out to be just the rootstock - M9 apples are not really very good for either eating or cooking! As with most things in life, you get what you pay for - while they do seem to be very pricey, Root's have supplied me with strong, healthy looking plants several times.

[Jungle Jane]

It may be worth a try. Victoria is probably actually the best choice (assuming these ones you have actually aren't Victoria), as it is reliably self-fertile.



As a general rule, most fruit trees grown on good soil only really need feeding for the first couple of years, and after that have spread their roots far enough to find their own nutrients (the exception being those on very dwarfing rootstocks).

An easy test is just to judge it based on how much the tree grew the previous year. If the tree put on plenty of strong new growth (like those plums have), it does not need feeding, and indeed giving it further nutrients is likely to be detrimental to fruiting, as it will encourage vegetative growth at the cost of fruit.
If, on the other hand, it hasn't grown much and looks a bit weedy (like those apples do), then it does need feeding.

I would certainly recommend avoiding giving anything with nitrogen in to the plums. Sulphate of potash might be helpful for them, though, as this helps to feed fruit (although they probably don't actually need it).
The apples definitely need a more general fertiliser, like blood, fish & bone, growmore, or poultry manure, though.

Ameno I’m not the one who is asking for any help all my fruit trees are fine. I am saying to fertilise the plum trees as well as the apples because they’ve not had any fertiliser since planting out. BFB for the health of all the trees. Sulphate of potash isn’t organic it should be mentioned.

[ChingfordHarry]

Sulphate of potash isn’t organic it should be mentioned.

Weirdly, although sulfate of potash is not organic, it is apparently approved for use in organic growing systems (I'm a chemist by training, so there's no way that I'd consider it to be anything but inorganic; I'm flexible enough to appreciate that the "chemistry" definition of "organic" is not the same as that used in other fields). See https://www.originfertilisers.co.uk/...c-fertilisers/

If you're worried about my spelling of "sulfate", that's been the approved spelling by the Royal Society of Chemistry for about 30 years, partly because there's no good etymological reason to spell it with "ph" [unlike "phosphate", which has classical Greek roots])

[Mcintosh85]

At a slight tangent to other posters, I'd be tempted to graft other known varieties onto the espaliers that you have. If you lack the skills yourself, if there's a local gardening club or similar there's almost bound to be someone nearby who would be able to do it for you (probably for the price of a cup of tea). My personal preference would be to have three different plums - Victorias are good, but variety is the spice of life.

Just read Ameno's comment re: Chris Bowers - although I wouldn't put in in quite those terms, they did sell me a couple of apples on M9 rootstock that turned out to be just the rootstock - M9 apples are not really very good for either eating or cooking! As with most things in life, you get what you pay for - while they do seem to be very pricey, Root's have supplied me with strong, healthy looking plants several times.

Thanks for the advice. I certainly do not have the knowledge to graft another variety on. But I will certainly look to see if anyone local has. Any downside to this?

[ameno]

Ameno I’m not the one who is asking for any help all my fruit trees are fine. I am saying to fertilise the plum trees as well as the apples because they’ve not had any fertiliser since planting out. BFB for the health of all the trees. Sulphate of potash isn’t organic it should be mentioned.

That reply wasn't actually directed at you. It was just addressing what you told McIntosh to do.
I am saying that his plum trees are clearly healthy enough: they are large, vigorous and green, and produce plenty of flowers every year.
The problem is the lack of fruit, which since they flower plentifully is clearly caused by pollination issues (although whether that's a problem with cross-pollination, lack of insects, or bad weather is hard to say for sure).
Fertiliser is not a cure-all, and too much nitrogen is detrimental to the cropping ability of many plants, especially plums, which respond to it by growing lots of vigorous new growth at the expense of flowers and fruit. In my opinion, giving the plum trees in that picture any nitrogen will not help them fruit, and may well actually exacerbate the issue.

Also, did you mean to type "should not be mentioned"?
And if so, why? As far as I am aware, there is no rule on this website about not being allowed to mention or recommend non-organic solutions (not to mention what was said above about it being approved for use in organic growing, anyway).

[ChingfordHarry]

I'll leave others to address the downsides, because I'm a big fan of grafting and having different varieties! What others see as a disadvantage could well turn out to be an opportunity.

On the upside (off the top of my head):

• you're less likely to get a glut of one variety
• if you choose compatible pollination partners, you tend to get more reliable pollination on all trees
• because fruits that flower at the same time don't necessarily ripen at the same time, you can extend the fresh fruit season
• possibly less likely that a disease in one will affect all of them as badly

Of course, it's also possible to graft several varieties onto a single tree (a "family tree") - what I've found with this is that one of the grafts tends to dominate, though. There was a report in the news a few years ago when a guy (in Nottingham, I think) had over 200 varieties of apple on the same tree.

[Jungle Jane]

That reply wasn't actually directed at you. It was just addressing what you told McIntosh to do.
I am saying that his plum trees are clearly healthy enough: they are large, vigorous and green, and produce plenty of flowers every year.
The problem is the lack of fruit, which since they flower plentifully is clearly caused by pollination issues (although whether that's a problem with cross-pollination, lack of insects, or bad weather is hard to say for sure).
Fertiliser is not a cure-all, and too much nitrogen is detrimental to the cropping ability of many plants, especially plums, which respond to it by growing lots of vigorous new growth at the expense of flowers and fruit. In my opinion, giving the plum trees in that picture any nitrogen will not help them fruit, and may well actually exacerbate the issue.

Also, did you mean to type "should not be mentioned"?
And if so, why? As far as I am aware, there is no rule on this website about not being allowed to mention or recommend non-organic solutions (not to mention what was said above about it being approved for use in organic growing, anyway).

I don’t know why you need to quote what I said,you can say what you want without.
I did not say “should not be mentioned” don’t misquote me,read properly. Some people would want to know this info,you can’t tell me what I can & can’t say ameno.

[Mcintosh85]

I'll leave others to address the downsides, because I'm a big fan of grafting and having different varieties! What others see as a disadvantage could well turn out to be an opportunity.

On the upside (off the top of my head):

• you're less likely to get a glut of one variety
• if you choose compatible pollination partners, you tend to get more reliable pollination on all trees
• because fruits that flower at the same time don't necessarily ripen at the same time, you can extend the fresh fruit season
• possibly less likely that a disease in one will affect all of them as badly

Of course, it's also possible to graft several varieties onto a single tree (a "family tree") - what I've found with this is that one of the grafts tends to dominate, though. There was a report in the news a few years ago when a guy (in Nottingham, I think) had over 200 varieties of apple on the same tree.

Thanks, this is interesting. I will certainly look into this.

[ameno]

I don’t know why you need to quote what I said,you can say what you want without.
I did not say “should not be mentioned” don’t misquote me,read properly. Some people would want to know this info,you can’t tell me what I can & can’t say ameno.

That was not my intention, and I don't know why you have to be so antagonistic with me.
None of what I said was meant as any kind of personal attack against you. I was merely disagreeing with a portion of your advice (which is the reason I quoted you: to make it clear which part I disagreed with and to give my counterpoint).

And I was not "misquoting" you, either. I asked a straightforward question about what I thought might well have been a typo, as that last sentence of yours didn't seem to make sense as it stood, so I though perhaps you had accidentally missed out the "not". Evidently, I was mistaken.

[Mcintosh85]

Just a thought ref the growth and pruning.

How best to manage these shoots that grow from the root of the apples?

[Snoop Puss]

Snip them off at ground level. Suckers growing from the rootstock will not be the cultivated/grafted variety.

[Mcintosh85]

Snip them off at ground level. Suckers growing from the rootstock will not be the cultivated/grafted variety.

Thank you. They come every year. So just keep cutting them back?

Was wondering whether there was anything that could be applied to the cut face to stop regrowth. Without damaging the tree