Pollinating Fruit Trees

[Rossa]

I like the fruit tree offer from Lidl and was going to get some today.

Not sure how many to get if they need to be pollinated. Checked Chris Bowers and the Stella is self-fertile. The Victoria and Opal plum will cross pollinate and so will the Beurre Hardy and Conference Pears.

Problem might be wiht the apples. Jonagold is supposed to be a "triploid" which I think means it needs 2 other varieties to pollinate it. Is this true? The other tree on offer is the Cox's Orange Pippin. Could this be used to pollinate the other one? Would I need a Bramley just to pollinate (not keen on cooking apples)

It also says the Cox could get scab and mildew but you can spray. Any idea what you use to spray it?

Also can any of these be grown in pots? If yes, what size should I get?

The trees are a very good price but I may not have room for lots of them, so any suggestions would be a great help.

[Two_Sheds]

The other tree on offer is the Cox's Orange Pippin. .

Don't waste your time.
Unfortunately England's favourite apple is not easy to grow. It needs a dry warm climate and is very prone to diseases, especially mildew.
Only this Sunday the experts on Gardeners Question Time were saying that Cox is too difficult.

It is used as a parent to produce lots of other apple varieties: apparently Fiesta is just as good for flavour, but much more disease resistant
http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/fruit_...ple_fiesta.htm

Jonagold is supposed to be a "triploid"

Jonagold is a cross between American apple Jonathan and a Golden Delicious

To guarantee pollination plant it in a sunny, open site with another tree from the same flowering group (e.g. 'James Grieve', Cox, Discovery)

Apples are grafted onto a rootstock. It is the rootstock which determines the final size of the tree.
If you want to grow in a container, you need a dwarf rootstock. More info here: http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/fruit_...r_2a_apple.asp

[littlemark]

If an apple tree is Triploid, it's pollen is very poor with regard to pollinating other trees. The Triploid only needs one good pollinating partner itself, but, this additional tree will also need a pollinator since the Triploid will not return the favour with good quality pollen.

It's worth bearing in mind that all apple trees will self pollinate to some degree, and should generally always set some crop, but in the case of Triploids (and Diploids) this could be very meagre so a pollinator is desirable.

Before concerning yourself with buying and planting extra trees to provide pollinating partners, have a good look around the neighbourhood and see if there are any other apple trees nearby. If there are, these may well be good pollen sources, and you may not need to plant extra trees, particularly if space is at a premium and overcrowding could be a problem.

Cheers, Mark

[Two_Sheds]

"triploid" which I think means it needs 2 other varieties to pollinate it.

Those which are described as Triploids provide little pollen and should not be used as pollinators.
They require a non-Triploid apple to pollinate them, and if you wish to have fruit on the pollinator, this too will need another pollinator.
Hence you will need three trees to provide enough pollen.
http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/Po...de_Apples.html

[FB.]

I think that the shops sell those varieties simply because they are well known. People tend to buy what they know. Unfortunately, supermarket apples are regularly treated with chemicals during the growing season, so disease resistance is not of concern to them. Not something that your average gardener wants to do.

Jonagold is triploid. No good as pollinator.
It is also reputed to be susceptible to mildew and canker. Possibly a poor choice for "organic" growing.
One to avoid, in my opinion.

Bramley is triploid. No good as pollinator.
It is reputed to be slightly susceptible to scab, but my Bramley is fairly resistant to everything without spraying.
Can be eaten after the new year.

Cox's is diploid. OK as pollinator (F=12).
It could pollinate Bramley (F=12) and probably pollinate Jonagold (F=15).
Reported to be very prone to disease.
One to avoid, in my opinion. It could need a lot of care and attention.

There's a good chance that even if you have a single tree, there will be other apples or crab apples nearby that could be pollen donors.
Or you could ask someone for scion wood to graft a "pollinator" branch (of a different variety) onto your tree.

If you don't have much space, I suggest you avoid the triploids, which tend to grow into extremely large trees (Bramley will be about twice the size of Cox's on the same rootstock) and sometimes they're so strong that even dwarfing rootstocks don't do much to control their vigour.
I have a Bramley on M26 (semi-dwarf rootstock) and it's growth rate far exceeds my two apples on M25 (very vigorous rootstock) and my three on MM111 (vigorous rootstock).

Ooops...forgot to say.

The reason why "triploids" are recommended to have two pollination partsners is so that the pollination partners also get pollinated.

For example, if you were to buy all three, the Cox (F=12) could pollinate the Bramley (F=12) and Jonagold (F=15), but neither could pollinate the Cox.
If you added a mid-season pollinator - such as Spartan (F=12), the Spartan would pollinate the Cox and the Cox would pollinate the Spartan. However, the Spartan does not need a pollinator.

I supplied a friend with a Bramley (triploid) and a Spartan (self-fertile and good pollinator) a couple of years ago. In that instance, there was no need for a second pollinator.

[greendean]

I like the fruit tree offer from Lidl and was going to get some today.

Not sure how many to get if they need to be pollinated. Checked Chris Bowers and the Stella is self-fertile. The Victoria and Opal plum will cross pollinate and so will the Beurre Hardy and Conference Pears.

I bought the stella and victoria plum last night from lidl

do i need to get an opal plum to pollinate the victoria or would another victoria do the job?

i forgot about all the pollinating thing with trees. I have one gala apple tree that does really well on its own. so didn't give it a thought

[FB.]

Victoria is self fertile. Mine produces adequate amounts of plums by itself.
In fact, Victoria can be prone to biennial bearing, so perhaps too much pollen is a bad thing.
But buying two of the same type as a bad idea: they are clones, so they have the same genes. Those genes are what cause self-incompatibility.

My understanding is this:
Fruits generally (but not always) have two sets of chromosomes. One set from each parent.
On those chromosomes are self-incompatibilty genes. Plants with the same self-incompatibility genes will be poor pollinators for each other. For that reason, I would not use any of the many Cox offspring to pollinate it's parent, since the offspring will have at least some of the parent incompatibility genes.

[greendean]

thanks for that fb

and there was me thinking you can just buy a tree, stick it in and eat the fruit.

think i will stick to my strawberries

[Two_Sheds]

and there was me thinking you can just buy a tree, stick it in and eat the fruit.

ahhh!
You can, you just need to research first.

I have one dwarf Lane's Prince Albert apple tree - it is four foot tall, and produces at least a dozen really good eating apples every autumn (and many more that are tiny or bird-pecked).

I never prune it, I never feed it, I never even thought about a pollinator (it is group 3, I just checked). There are a couple of other apple trees on the site, but I have no idea what type they are.

[FB.]

Apple trees are still quite common. You can often get by without a pollination partner because bees will transfer pollen from other apple trees or crabapples on their route. There must be a dozen crab apple trees and a dozen eating apple trees within a few hundred yards of me. Not that pollination is a concern; I have many varieties of my own.

Pear pollination is the main problem. They are less common in the UK and I only know of two pear trees within a mile of me. I have three pears growing close together to make it easier for bees to pollinate (Conference-P/S/F, Concorde-P/S/F and Williams-P/S/F). Those three are all partially self-fertile. Pear blossom doesn't seem especially attractive to bees, which (along with late frosts damaging blossoms) doesn't help with getting them pollinated or setting fruit. I only see occasional bumblebees buzzing around my pears at flowering time - no more than two or three bees at busy times and no bees half the time!

I try to provide accomodation for solitary orchard bees to improve my pollination. I have old posts and logs with 5-9mm holes (as deep as possible) drilled in them. The bees build mud-lined nests in the holes, stuff them with pollen, then lay eggs. I've also just put out some bumblebee nests - this will be my first attempt at housing bumblebees.

[janeyo]

And sorry to butt in but can you expect any fruit from the first year?
My cherry from garden centre self fertile gave us fruit year one.
My plum, and pear, self fertile, mail ordered did nothing last year (year one) not even any blossom.
I have since bought a couple of others from the lidl bargains in late autumn (2 different apples another pear, another plum and a bramley) but wondered if fruit trees normally are slow to set fruit?

We have an established apple tree (20years old ish)which fruits early so not a good polinator for some of my others, and we don't know what it is either.

Thanks

[FB.]

Depending on the variety, the rootstock, the age at planting time, the shape that you plan to grow the tree, and the growing conditions, some trees can take several years to fruit, whereas others may fruit straight away. Don't worry about it.
It is best not to push young trees too hard. Their first couple of years should be used to encourage growth and to build a strong root system. Most of the fruit should be removed, since it draws energy from other parts of the plant (it is reckoned that one fruit requires the energy from 15 leaves).
Early fruiting will reduce the growth rate, cause weaker roots and smaller trees with poor drought tolerance and poor anchorage; they may get blown over, or develop a lean that is impossible to correct.

Bramley and most pear trees are rather slow to reach maturity/fruiting. There are ways to speed up the fruiting, but at the expense of growth.

[janeyo]

Ok thanks, I will stop worrying that I bought duds then

[FB.]

They won't be duds.
Apple trees form fruit on side-spurs off the main branches. It takes one year for the trunk to grow, one year for the side branches to grow, and - if you're lucky - in the third year, some of the branches will produce large, furry side-buds that will flower the following year (year 4).
As time goes on, the branches will gradually produce more spurs on which fruit will eventually be produced.
Some varieties will produce fruit buds more easily than others and some (dwarfing) rootstocks will increase the production of fruit buds.
Pruning a branch in winter will reduce the chances of fruit bud formation on it during the next growing season (but winter pruning is used to form a good branch structure for the later years). Pruning a branch in summer will increase fruit bud formation for the following year's crop. After summer pruning, growth is likely to stop for that season.

[Rossa]

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments....wow what a great forum. I'm glad I came across you guys (and gals) yesterday.

We've decided not to get any of our fruit trees from Lidl. The pollination issue and lack of space for the number we would need was the deciding factor.

We're sticking with Plan A to buy Supercolumns from Chris Bowers. They grow to max. 7' and can be grown in pots. Single trunk with spurs for fruit. Will only spread to 2' so easy to get 2 on the patio. Also chosen self-fertile varieties, Scrumptious Apple and their new pear called Invincible. It blossoms twice a year so will still set fruit even if we have a late frost.

Has anyone tried these?

PS Did buy soft fruit from Aldi today so still got a bargain. Now all I have to do is work out how to grow them...will probably post after I've had a look at the instructions.