Barren pear tree

[bobleponge]

I have a little pear tree, nothing does it bear, not even a silver nutmeg nor a golden pear.
Its probably about 6ft tall and pparently it has always given either 1 or 2 pears a year, but I have always been away and so have missed it, but this year I have been home, and nothing.
I am going for a stab in the dark here, but I have no other pear tree's in my garden and its only farm land around me so no pear trees there either.
I was told that previously I was just lucky, that a couple of spurious bits of pollen/very industrious bees sorted me out, but this year nothing at all.
I dont know what type of pear, what rootstock or even how old, it was in the garden when I turned up.
I am thinking of buying another pear tree to boost my chances but:

What sort
How old
How far away can I plant from the one I have now

Any help happily received.

[BumbleB]

We inherited a pear tree when we moved in last year as well as a plum tree. No fruit on either last year but both have fruited quite well this year. We have had 25 decent pears and some others not so good. The plum turned out to be greengage and cropped well. We also do not know the types etc but we will prune and spray and hope for continued harvest.

[SarzWix]

Were you at home when it flowered Boble? It might be that it's an early flowerer (is that a word?) and it gets caught out by bad weather which is what causes the low amount of fruit? I think there are a few pears which are self-fertile, but if the blossom is being damaged by weather...?! Also, they tend to be a bit pathetic compared to apples, so need a more sheltered spot to grow in and better soil.
If it's none of those things, then you could wait to see when it flowers so you can work out a pollination group and then buy a matching tree, or, you could just take a chance and buy any other pear tree over winter, stick it in and cross your fingers...
Not sure what the planting distance is meant to be, but if the bees can go in a straight line from one to the other then that usually works

[Rhona]

We've inherited a very old pear tree with our new house. It's in a right old state! Tons of pears but all with black spot and not growing properly. It's one of a trio all planted at the same time when the area was a huge orchard - the one to the right has no pears at all, but neighbours to the left have loads of healthy fruit.

Hopefully we can have a go at sorting ours out come pruning time.

There. I'm sure that's really helped you, hasn't it Bob, me banging on about our pear tree?

[bobleponge]

No, I think I must have been away when it flowered, if indeed it did, although all the other fruit trees all flowered and produced ok, and from memory the weather at home this year wasnt too bad at all. However, just having reread your post, as it has historically given low amounts of fruit, perhaps thats the case.
Its in a pretty sheltered spot to be fair, in fact more so this year than in the previous 3 due to the corn crop growing in the field behind, which is the prevailing weather direction.
Not sure I'm bright enough to work out a pollination group, so may just try and buy another tree when I get home and stick it in. Got a spot about 30 yards away that should do, but there is a cherry tree in the way, will that cause a problem? I can see how it might??

[bobleponge]

Rhona
I feel sure the answer is in there somewhere, I just have to tease it out

[SarzWix]

I don't know how to work out pollination groups either, but I expect a decent fruit nursery would be able to help if you could tell them when it flowers? I'm not sure if the cherry tree in the path would matter, guess it depends if it's in flower at the same time If it is, then the bees will stop off there before getting to the pear tree and might dilute the pollen a bit? (This is pure speculation, I'm no pear, or bee, expert )

[FB.]

If you're over the other side of the channel, I'm not sure how well the British pear types will grow.
A variety such as Conference or Concorde are partially self-fertile and should be reasonable pollinators of other pear trees.
Even better, you could get a family pear tree (that includes one of the above) on Quince rootstock and try to get one with varieties that have adjacent pollination groups, which would allow a longer flowering season to pollinate your pear.
Pear blossom seems less attractive to bees than most other flowers, so their visits can be few and far between. For that reason, I suggest planting the pollinator as close as possible, subject to allowing it some room to grow.
A combination of weak growth on my poor soil and poor pollination of my pear trees eventually led me to dig them out and plant them in a line, spaced only about 2ft apart and with one or two branches of each pear reaching into the middle of it's neighbour, to allow bees to unavoidably move between two different types of pear flower.

[bobleponge]

Hmmm 2ft apart? That close?
How big are your trees then?
I would have space right next door to it, and can certainly see the logic in planting them close together, but I wouldnt have thought that the trees could be that big?

Off to the garden centre for me when I get home then, and get another tree.
Thanks all.

[FB.]

My growing conditions are extremely poor - shallow, dry, sandy soil - the rainfall is very little and the soil drains rapidly with no moisture-retention.
I get six inches of growth per year from the pear trees, since not only is it dry, but they are unsprayed, so that pests (aphids, caterpillars) reduce their vigour somewhat. They're on Quince rootstock. If I were to try again with pears, I'd try to get them on very vigorous seedling rootstock, or I'd look for especially vigorous varieties. However, most parts of the UK don't have such poor conditions, so most people would be unwise to grow pears on seedling roots!
I actually found that my pears did better when planted under grass than when in clear ground, since although the grass competes with the trees, it also helps hold a little more moisture in the ground.

My pear bushes have a spread of about 4ft and height about 6ft, with one or two of the major branches passing into the middle of it's neighbour specifically to aid pollination. They all have an open centre, apart from the neighbouring branches passing through the middle. If their vigour eventually picks up, I will control them by summer pruning and they will become a something between a small bush and a cordon.

My plum manages the same growth as the pears and it's on St.Julien A rootstock. I've more or less given up on pears and plums and put most of my effort into apples, which will tolerate drier conditions than pears or plums.

I grow my apples on much stronger rootstocks than nurseries recommend - MM106 is the smallest (!) rootstock that has any chance of establishing here and it takes about three years to start growing after planting. MM106 is reckoned to reach about 11ft when mature in the average parts of the UK (15ft in ideal conditions), but as an example, some mature MM106 trees near to me have managed only about 7ft and their age is estimated to be 25 years.
Seedling-rootstocked trees grafted with the most vigorous apples (e.g. Bramley) manage no more than 15ft after about 20years and perhaps 20ft after 50 years.
Even drought-tolerant plants die when planted here!
In fact, many of the weeds usually die from mildew (which especailly attacks drought stressed plants).

I've been so frustrated over the years by difficult conditions that I'm growing a Blenheim Orange apple tree on it's own roots and then hope to use "coppicing" and "layering" to turn the tree into a rootstock, or to produce "own-root" Blenheim trees!
In case you aren't aware; Blenheim Orange is capable of forming massive, strong-limbed trees - ideal to thrive in my poor conditions.

[bobleponge]

Once again FB, you are a font of fruity knowledge.
Sorry, but I shall have to probe further to ensure I know what I'm doing when I get back home (??)
I have many fruit trees in the garden, probably around 8 - 10 apple trees of different varieties in the front garden, and a massive quince tree. Also have 2 cherry trees and a peach tree. In the back garden there are approx 15 - 20 plum/damson trees, a few more cherry trees and another peach tree.
The pear tree is to the right hand side of the house.
All of these (less the pear) seem to fruit pretty much annually, although the largest apple has generally been biannual since I moved here, but did fruit this year when it wasnt supposed to.
There are various other trees around the garden, a huge weeping willow, a lime tree and some other behemoth that is coming down this winter.
This would indicate to me that the soil is decent enough to sustain reasonable growth, I havent actually measured how much growth I get on the trees, but the plums/damsons especially grow like weeds, I have to pull them up or I would have no garden left at all at the back.
Given this, I am assuming that a seedling rootstock wouldnt be the best option, and that I should buy one on a quince rootstock?
The tree I have is approximately 6ft tall, hasnt really spread very much, sort of grows upwards rather than outwards, and has been put in directly behind a 4ft high stone wall. I could get another one in there, without any problems, so you would suggest planting it right next to it, but roughly what age tree should I be looking at? The soil in this area isnt hugely deep I dont think, but it certainly holds water reasonably well, not boggy but always pretty damp there in the winters.
Would you suggest self fertile for the new tree, at least that might then allow me to give nature a hand if the bee's cant do it for me?
There is a great G.C. not too far from me, so I will be able to get what I want there, but would like to know what you recommend, so I can learn the words before I go, if I dont already know them. I dont know the French for rootstock for example, so there's one.
Many thanks again for your help.

[Jardiniere]

last year we bought two pear trees in GammVert - they are two different types of pear on one main stem - so they are meant to pollinate each other - one is a Beurre Hardy and the other is a conference (i think- its dark outside so i'm not going to check) They didnt flower at all this year so no fruit which was disapointing but it might be worth looking for these combinations............????

[FB.]

From what you say and the size of the existing pear tree, I'd get a Conference or Concorde pear on a Quince rootstock. A family tree would be even better.
Both Conference and Concorde are relatively slow-growing trees and are both part self-fertile.
Quince C rootstock is slightly less vigorous than Quince A, but is harder to find.
If you opt for QA rootstock and find the trees to be too vigorous, prune most of the new shoots hard in mid-July.
Pears have a natural tendency to grow about twice as high as they are wide, more like a conifer shape. If you want them to be more apple-tree shaped, then you'll need to get the pruning just right.

The best way to encourage spreading is to find a point on the branch where three buds point in the following directions:
top bud: upwards and slightly inwards.
next two buds down the stem: outwards.

Prune just above the upwards and inwards bud during winter. You'll need to cut at least half of the branch's length off, to be sure of some side branches forming.
The result will be that during the next growing season, the top bud will grow straight up, but the lower two buds will have grown outwards at nice angles.
During the following winter, cut off the stem to a point just above your two nicely-angle branches.

When winter-pruning, the topmost bud always tries to continue the direction of the branch during the next season - and it will grow at least twice as strongly as the next bud down. Buds below this top bud will branch out at good angles.
If a branch is cut back by 1/3, you might only get one good side branch.
If cut back by 1/2, you'll probably get 2-3 good side branches.
If cut back by 2/3, you may get 3-4.
If cut back by 3/4, you may get 4-5.

The precise amount of side branching will vary with variety and growing conditions.

[bobleponge]

Thanks Jardiniere, there is a GV near me, sadly I dont know what variety my current tree is, which makes things a bit difficult, but can guess from the pictures perhaps.
FB, thanks again, most helpful. Perfectly described by the way, much more like a conifer, so shall give that some pruning this winter, as well as planting the new one.