Apple Variety Information Update

**FB.** · 21-10-2009, 05:46 PM

Resistance notes:
Resistant doesn't mean free from damage - it means usually not enough to be serious.
Intermediate means the problem is variable, with some areas and some years being worse than others.
Susceptible means possibly damaging amounts of the problem in many seasons - unless you spray.
A single apple tree is more likely to suffer pest attacks because the pests (capsid bugs, earwigs, maggots) don't have a choice of what to eat. Growing more than one type of apple tends to result in the pests attacking their favourite, which takes some of the pressure off the others.
Crowded fruit seem prone to pest attack.

Flowering notes:
Ideally, plant two different varieties that flower at the same time, although apple trees (including crab apples) are common enough in most areas that pollinators may be just a few gardens or hedgerows away. Some varieties are self-fertile, but better quantities and better quality fruit is achieved from cross-pollination. Partial pollination will occur between adjacent flowering groups.
Triploids are not good for pollinating other varieties.
Flowering time can be affected by rootstock (see below).
Some varieties have very poor pollination with their parents or relatives.

Flavour notes:
Flavour is a personal thing. Some people like sharp apples, some like sweet, some like a sweet-sharp and some like fruity flavours.
Note that while many varieties pick in the autumn (Sept-Oct), some varieties actually taste better if you store them for a few weeks - such as those listed as "winter" or "spring" usage.
In fact, some of the russet family (Brownlees Russet, D'Arcy Spice, Egremont Russet) often taste at their best when their skin looks like shrivelled-up toads in the following spring. But they keep very well and the inner flesh remains healthy, although slightly rubbery.

Rootstocks:

M27: very small.
For patio pots or very good soil. Suitable for small to medium bushes of the larger varieties (e.g. Bramley, Blenheim, Laxton Superb to name a few) on reasonably good soils.

M9: small.
Brittle roots - may be blown over in storms.
More suited to heavy soil.
Fruit is often larger and ripens earlier.
May reduce the tendency for bitter pit.

M26: small-medium.
Often causes tree to flower slightly earlier (i.e. "late" becomes "mid-late").
Might improve scab resistance.

MM106: medium.
Resistant to woolly aphid.
Causes trees to flower earlier (i.e. "late" becomes "mid").

MM111 medium-large.
Resistant to woolly aphid.
Good for dry soil as it is capable of growing a wide-spreading root system.
Causes trees to flower earlier (i.e. "late" becomes "mid").
Might improve mildew resistance.

M25: large.

.
"Large" is about twice the size of "small".

A common misinformation is that rootstock is all that matters for tree size. In fact, rootstock size and variety size tend to average-out. Therefore, a Bramley on M26 will grow much larger and faster than Cox on M26.

.

**sarraceniac** · 22-10-2009, 09:13 AM

Hi FB. You got any info on Reinette Descadres, a russet variety. I bought one last winter and am expecting some blossom next spring (but not a lot

). It has just dawned on me though that my other 2 varieties, Cox's Orange and Granny Smith's, may not be the right time as pollinators, although they are great with each other. As we are getting to that time of year again should I be getting (yet) another tree to pollinate or will my existing ones be on time? Thanks.

**SueA** · 22-10-2009, 11:59 AM

I've got a Red Devil tree in a container & I'm pleased to see that you got reasonable results from yours FB. I love the apples & the only problem I've had so far is the odd one nibbled by snails & one which appeared to have been attacked by a moth larvae or something. Do you think it's worth putting a grease band around the very skinny trunk now to stop the moths?

**FB.** · 23-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by sarraceniac View Post

Hi FB. You got any info on Reinette Descadres, a russet variety. I bought one last winter and am expecting some blossom next spring (but not a lot

). It has just dawned on me though that my other 2 varieties, Cox's Orange and Granny Smith's, may not be the right time as pollinators, although they are great with each other. As we are getting to that time of year again should I be getting (yet) another tree to pollinate or will my existing ones be on time? Thanks.

I've never encountered the variety, but I have a book with the following basic information:
Origin: Belgium, around 1830.
Flowers mid-season. Partial tip-bearer. Triploid. Pick September.
Parentage not known but tree is generally similar to Blenheim orange (which I grow myself).
(I have seen and heard many claims of Blenheim Orange seedlings having many similarities to their parent).

The mid-season flowering should coincide with both Cox's and Granny Smith, so I doubt that pollination will be an issue.
But bear in mind the part-tip-bearing nature, the very vigorous growth and the tendency of Blenheim to take several years or more to settle into regular and heavy cropping.

Hope that helps.

**FB.** · 23-10-2009, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by SueA View Post

I've got a Red Devil tree in a container & I'm pleased to see that you got reasonable results from yours FB. I love the apples & the only problem I've had so far is the odd one nibbled by snails & one which appeared to have been attacked by a moth larvae or something. Do you think it's worth putting a grease band around the very skinny trunk now to stop the moths?

It is probably worth putting a grease band. You could also try a band of corugated cardboard that the moth larvae like to hibernate in - and then remove the cardboard band in the new year and dispose of it (not in a composter because the larvae will still hatch into moths in the spring.
Either bin it, or burn it. If you're very bug-conscious, you might want to try to dissect the cardboard to avoid burning hibernating ladybirds and other beneficial insects.
Personally, I don't find moths/maggots to be a big problem with Red Devil; it's mostly earwigs that chew the surface or occasionally crawl into the core via the bottom of the fruit - they seem to like to eat the pips.
My Scrumptious and Ellison's Orange, in particular, bear the brunt of maggot attacks. Discovery and Worcester Pearmain also suffer to a lesser extent.

I search among fruitlets on my Scrumptious and Ellison rigorously from May to July, in search of 1-2mm brown-black holes in fruits. I then remove and burn all the "holed" fruits and find that codling attacks are then virtually non-existant the remainder of the season.

I guess you could call it a form of "companion" planting, or "sacrificial" planting.

**sarraceniac** · 23-10-2009, 07:48 PM

Thanks FB. I usually trust the Web as a fountain of knowledge but although I found references to this apple I found no propagation details which is unusual. Thank goodness somebody still keeps 'old fashioned' books. Sometimes they can't be beaten.

I reckon I'm OK with 'B' pollinators which is a relief because I am running out of tree space. And I don't mind waiting for a crop (after all I'm just a baby) but would love to taste just one again after about exty-five years (a family friend used to have a mature tree when I was a kid).

Once again thanks.

**FB.** · 23-10-2009, 08:07 PM

Generally speaking, it is better to have a group C or D pollinator for a group D triploid than to have a Group E pollinator.

The reason being that the C will be in full flower when the D begins to open and the pollen will cling to bees bodies for a few days after the C pollinators have finished flowering - but long enough for some pollen transfer to the D.
A "D" pollinator would flower at the same time.
If you had a group E pollinator, only the last flowers to open on the D triploid would remain when the first of the E's open, so pollination would only be partial at best - and probably erratic from one season to the next.

In other words, if I were looking for a pollinator for the triploid Blenheim (group D), I would choose one in group C or D, but definitely not E because most of the Blenheim's flowers would be wilting by the time the group E came into full bloom.

If you find space to be lacking for additional pollinators (not that you need one right now), it is often possible to have a cordon, a patio apple, or a small bush as a pollinator. But apple trees - and crab apples - are sufficiently common that pollination is not usually a problem.

**sarraceniac** · 23-10-2009, 08:48 PM

Once again - a fountain of knowledge. We have loads of crab apple trees within about 300 metres of the house. I'll send you some jelly.

**valmarg** · 28-10-2009, 09:21 PM

A variety that my dad used to grow was Peasegood Nonsuch. It was an dual vairiety. I loved it as a crisp crunchy eater.

Is it still available?

Blenheim Orange was the variety that gran loved to use to make mincemeat.

I have my grandad's books, The Fruit Grower's Guide. They are over 100 years old, and list loads of varieties that are no longer available.

valmarg

**FB.** · 28-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Yes, Peasgood's Nonsuch is still available.
A nursery not too far from me had some bushes on MM106 for about �15 last summer, but I haven't visited the nursery this year. The nursery/garden centre that had them is near Oakington, Cambridgeshire.

I suspect that a few other nurseries around the country stock them.

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