apple trees for North East of England

[Macka]

Hi there,
can anyone advise on which apple trees are suitable and grow well in North East of England(Newcastle)?
I have 2 apple trees in my garden(planted them 3 years ago) Discovery and Orange cox pipin. For the first time this year had apples on my Discovery tree and they were so tasty. NO fruit from the other tree yet.
Hoping to plant another 2 trees, but would like to get different kind, maybe something more traditional english variety.
Garden centres around me seem to be stocking only the variety i already have and even they are delivered from Holland.
Can anyone advise?

[Snadger]

Cox's pippin is a triploid variety I think, requiring three pollinators. Whenever you are buying apple trees you need to be aware of what other varieties are needed for pollination.
I try to stick with self pollinated varieties.One I can recommend, which is a cox type apple is Sunset. Its done well for me in this area!

[solway cropper]

Discovery is an early variety and not really suited to areas with late frost. I have one here in north Cumbria and it's a bit erratic, having said that I got a helluva crop this year. Cox is likewise not suited to cold areas but there are plenty that you could try. Lord Lambourne, Falstaff and Sunset should grow well in your neck of the woods.

[SarzWix]

'Russett' types do well in cold/wet areas. Egremont Russet is a well known variety.

I'd suggest getting your trees from a specialist fruit nursery, as bare root trees. You get lots more choice, and help with the right pollination partners and rootstocks. There's always lots in the classified section at the back of the mag., or you could just Google

I've used these before and had good experience; Keepers Nursery - possibly the largest range of fruit trees and soft fruit plants in the world

[FB.]

Macka

I suspect that you're prone to hard, late frosts. That can cause havoc with some varieties if they're just coming out of winter dormancy and get hit by a hard frost on the freshly-opened buds.
Your slightly shorter growing season would also favour early or mid-season varieties, which will have plenty of time to ripen. Very late varieties might not ripen enough.
Cooking apples don't need as much ripening, so you could try a late cooker (but Bramley is very prone to frost damage).

I would advise against using the very common MM106 rootstock unless a very late flowering variety is grafted because the same variety (e.g. Discovery) grafted on MM106 and M9 will not flower at the same time; the MM106 will flower about a week earlier and increase the risk of frost damage.
Consider how the rootstock might affect flowering;
The same variety (e.g. Discovery) grafted onto different rootstocks would flower in the following order:

MM106
MM111
M26
M25
M9

It is possible that the MM106 Discovery will have completely finished flowering before the M9 Discovery opens it's first flowers.

Late flowering types would come top of my list. In fact, I actually like late-flowering types in my area for several reasons. I need MM106 for the vigour, but spring comes very early here and pollinating insects are very scarce.
If you go for late flowering types, be sure that you have suitable pollinators for them.
On my shortlist would be:

James Grieve (dual purpose).
Opens buds gradually over a few weeks, so only loses a small number of buds if an unexpected hard frost appears in April-May.

Spartan (eater).
Comes from Northern USA/Canada, so is tolerant of extreme frosts.
Fruit is sweet and colourful - ideal for a spot that might not be quite so sunny or long growing season.

Egremont Russet (eater)
Flowers early but is very hardy, so can tolerate some frost damage.

Crawley Beauty (cooker), Annie Elizabeth (cooker) & Edward VII (cooker)
All are very late flowering cookers that miss the frosts. They also keep for months after picking and can often be eaten raw after Christmas.

There are many other varieties, but I prefer only to comment on those which I grow myself.

You should also seek out old-fashoined varieties that originate from your area, since they will be well-adapted.

And finally, try to get varieties that have at least partial resistance to the various apple diseases - or at least resistance to the diseases commonly found in your area - which will almost certainly include scab.

[Incredible Edible]

I would suggest that you contact the Northern Fruit Group and ask them to send you their list of apple varieties that grow well in the north...They helped us enormously when we were planning our community orchard last year..

Northern Fruit Group home page | Promoting fruit growing in the North of England

[sarraceniac]

Cox's pippin is a triploid variety I think, requiring three pollinators. Whenever you are buying apple trees you need to be aware of what other varieties are needed for pollination.
I try to stick with self pollinated varieties.One I can recommend, which is a cox type apple is Sunset. Its done well for me in this area!

Don't think so Snadge. I have Cox and Granny Smith. No problems. It is possible that the crab apples 30 metres down the road are helping as well but I have never heard of a Cox needing 2 other types (Strange expression, triploid, a triploid needs 3 trees but only 2 pollinators).

FB (whom I bow to as the forum guy on apples) may know better and perhaps the crabs are also contributing.

The Cox is supposed to be difficult and low cropping. I feel really smug. Mine has (so far) not had any real nasties, apart from last year when an infestation of wood-lice ate about one third of the crop until I realised they were there, but we both just love them. The perfect tasting apple.

[FB.]

Cox is renowned for being prone to disease and low yielding. But some people manage to get lucky.
My belief why certain varieties are prone to disease is because they are widely grown and therefore most locations will have nearby sources of disease that are perfectly adapted to attack that variety. Living close to commercial orchards and especially abandoned orchards could allow spread of disease to your trees. Since the main apple growing regions are in the South of England, it may be that there are less apple diseases in the North.

Cox's Orange Pippin is not triploid, but most Cox clones require a pollinator. However, there is "Cox's Self Fertile" variety available, but I have read that Cox's SF was created by radiation-treating a Cox's Orange Pippin tree and then taking grafts from the mutated branches that were found to be able to self-pollinate.

Triploid refers to the genetic makeup.
Most life on this planet has two pairs of chromosomes. One set from the father and one set from the mother. Having two sets of chromosomes is referred to as "Diploid".
Occasionally, mother nature has an accident and one of the parents contributes a defective egg or sperm (or flower/pollen), which can result in abnormal numbers of chromosomes. Down's Syndrome in humans results when someone has three of the chromosome number 21, instead of the normal pair of chromosome number 21.
In some apples, the chromosomes have three sets - triploid. It makes equal division of the odd number chromosomes difficult and results in bad pollen that rarely turns into a pip. Bramley is a good example.
There are also apple varieties with tetraploid chromosomes (four sets). They are often mutations of an existing variety - such as tetraploid Spartan. Since they have an even number of chromosomes, they can produce good pollen. They also tend to produce larger fruit and more vigorous trees.

[northmaid]

Sorry to come in on this late. I'm in the same neck of the woods as you are and sought advice from RV Roger & Co, a nursery in Pickering. They have a large selection of apple trees and recommended Lord Lambourne and Fortune as varieties suitable. Both are self-fertile. I got two-year old bare root espaliers (my allotments don't allow trees above a certain height) and these were planted around this time last year. I actually got some fruit this year, not a huge amount but the apples were delicious.

[FB.]

The inlaws have a Lord Lambourne and although it is reliable, it's disease resistance is only average and most of the fruit is destroyed by pests - maggots, wasps, earwigs.
The tree is a mature half-standard, but despite it's size, I get as much non-pest-damaged fruit from just one of my (more pest-resistant) bushes.
Pests seem especially fond of the Worcester Pearmain family line (a parent of Lord Lambourne), which includes many modern varieties.
But whether those pests are a problem up North is unknown to me. Pheromone traps, grease bands and good hygiene might help.

If pests are a problem, I highly recommend Spartan. In my area, without sprays, 9/10 of my Spartan fruits are picked in perfect condition - to rival the smooth, colourful shop apples - with absolutely no blemishes.