Fruit Tree advice

[russell]

HI There

Looking for some advice on some fruit trees. It's my birthday in a couple of weeks and my Mum is buying me some fruit trees for the lotty. I have about 6m x 6m to plant on.

I've seen this deal and was looking further into it....

Garden Bargains - Mini-Orchard Collection - www.gardenbargains.com

Now looking at it...

would need 2 of each cos some of them need a pollanators nearby?
How much space would I need to give the trees when they're in if I did buy them?
would they grow in yorkshire if i did buy them?

Any thing else I might need to know?


Thanks for reading and the advice.

[PomonaFruits]

Dear Russel

Looking at the 3 trees that have been offered by this company, only Victoria is self-fertile. Conference is partially self-fertile, which means you will get a crop of fruit, but it will do better with a pollinating partner in the same flowering group (such as Concorde). Alternatively you could just go for Concorde which is self-fertile. The jury is out on Braeburn - some claim it is self-fertile, but if you want to be on the safe side it is better to have a pollinator unless there are apple trees (in the same flowering group) in neighbouring gardens (or go for an apple variety that is definitely self-fertile e.g. Falstaff, Greensleeves, Red Windsor). Braeburn by the way is very late and requires a good summer to develop its full flavour in the U.K, so if you can't give it a good position, forget about it (there are trees that will do better in your part of the country).

The height and spread of the trees will depend on the rootstock and the way you intend to grow them. Bush apple trees, grown on M26 rootstock will usually grow 8-12ft in height and spread. The same is true for bush pears on Quince 'A' rootstock. Bush plums on St Julian 'A' rootstock will grow 12-15ft in height and spread. If you haven't got much space, you could consider vertical cordons (columnar trees) that can be planted as close as 2-3ft apart.

Hope that helps,

[sarraceniac]

Hi Russell. Braeburn is generally accepted as self fertile. The bad news is, as PomonaFruits says in a roundabout way, because it needs a long warm growing season (it is a New Zealand variety, a cross between Lady Hamilton and Granny Smith devaloped in the early 1950s) it is NOT suitable for growing north of Watford, to coin a phrase.

I grow Grannies perfectly well in Scarborough with a Cox pollinator but Braeburn is far too dodgy.

[northepaul]

I think it really depends what you want...Personally I would prefer to pay a little more and choose what I want, and get the right rootstock.
Have a good look around at all there is to offer before making your decision.

[FB.]

I think it really depends what you want...Personally I would prefer to pay a little more and choose what I want, and get the right rootstock.
Have a good look around at all there is to offer before making your decision.

I agree.
Not all varieties and not all rootstocks perform the same in different parts of the country, due to soil and climate - and can be affected by the vigour of the variety grafted onto the rootstock.
Best to pay a little extra and select something that will do exactly what you want, rather than try to "make do" with a tree that is ugly, grows to fast or too slow, is reluctant to fruit, loses blossoms to frost, or suffers from persistent disease problems.

Victoria and Conference are good all-rounders, but Braeburn can be difficult because it's not really a UK variety.
Victoria tends to produce small fruit when self-pollinated.
Conference tends to produce bent fruit when self-pollinated - and often there are no pips.

A hard frost in March/April could destroy all of Victoria's or Conference's flowers, meaning no crop that season and then a persistent tendency towards biennial bearing thereafter.
Apples (especailly late-flowering varieties) are a better choice where late frosts can be a problem, because they flower much later than plums or pears.

Not all nurseries mention the rootstock. It is absolutely essential to know the rootstock because otherwise you have no idea how large or small the tree might get - or any other possible special requirements for particular rootstocks.

[russell]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Can anyone actually recommend some smaller trees that might actually bear fruit in yorkshire. I'm struggling to get my head around M25/M26 polinating groups etc. etc. etc.

Thanks again

[FB.]

M25 rootstock is for very large trees, or for bushes on poor soil.

M26 or MM106 rootstock are for small trees or medium bushes and are the best choice for gardens.

More Northern gardens may want to use M26 because it leafs-out a few days later than MM106, even when grafted with the same variety. The later leafing-out helps reduce the risk of flowers or fruitlets being killed by a late frost.

I'll give you some suggestions that I'd consider (but these are my best guesses):

Plums:
Victoria on St. Julien A rootstock.
Marjorie's Seedling on Pixy rootstock.

These plums flower quite late (for a plum), so have a better chance of missing a killer frost and may tolerate a light frost. They are part-self-fertile.
But the fruits are only average flavour.
I would only go for one plum to start with and if it doesn't fruit by itself afte a couple of years, then get a pollinator.


.

Pears:
Conference on Quince A rootstock.
Invincible on Quince A rootstock. This tree is reputed to produce a second wave of blossom, so that it gets a second chance if frost bitten.

Both pears are part-self-fertile and have some tolerance of light frost.

.

Apples:
Egremont Russet on M26 rootstock.
James Grieve on M26 rootstock.
Bountiful on M26 rootstock.
Discovery on M26 rootstock.
Spartan on M26 rootstock.
Grenadier on M26 rootstock.
Worcester Pearmain on M26 rootstock.
Winston on M26 rootstock.
Crawley Beauty on M26 or MM106 rootstock. It flowers so late that it is almost guaranteed to miss the frosts, regardless of rootstock.

All those apples (except possibly Discovery and Bountiful) are part-self-fertile and all are fairly resistant to frost damage due to either being hardy, or only opening a few flowers at a time.

.

All of the above trees will not grow so strongly that they get out of control.
They'll probably reach about 10-12ft in 10-15 years if you don't prune them much, but could be kept permanently at half that size with summer pruning and reduced feeding.

With those trees, no pollinators should be necessary. Pollination problems are more likely to be due to lack of insects.

[russell]

Oh wow!!!

Thank you FB - gives me lots of things to think about.

Thanks you're a diamond!

This is what I'm looking at.....

Pear - Conference - Bush (Quince A)
Plum - Victoria - Bush (St Julian A)
Apple - James Grieve - Bush (M26)

£18.50 each from R V Rogers. From what you said amI best of getting 2 apple, 2 pear and 1 plum?

Thanks again!!!!

[northepaul]

You need to ask yourself,what sort of flavour you want from a plum?
I have just bought a gage - the sweetest desert plums, if you go for a Willingham its self-fertile.
I also have on order a Damson - the loveliest culinary plum - I love to see the tree with black fruit and that delicate bloom...beautiful .
However Damsons are maybe not to everyone's taste
I also went for a pixy rootstock on advice from the nursery, so the trees only get to about 6-8ft tall.

With regards apples, also the M27 rootstock is very dwarfing...but it again depends on how much room you want to give it.
With pear trees, I bought one for my daughter to have in a container on Quince C, which is very dwarfing.

If you only have one of each and you want to pick and eat, always look for deseert verieties and make sure they are self-fertile.

[russell]

well how about this for an update...

My mum not knwoing the advice on here bought me 2 lots anyway. We then tried to cancel the order but they turned up anyway. When I rang the company - they have refunded the money AND sent the trees.

So I currently have 2 of each tree, conference pear. braeburn apple, victoria plum, and cherry morello.

I'm now really tempted just to chuck them in the lotty and see what happens...

[sarraceniac]

The morellos, at least will be fine. They are very hardy, not at all fussy and self fertile. They are of course technically a cooking cherry so hope your mum makes a mean cherry pie or that you like eating sour cherries. They also make brilliant cherry brandy.

[FB.]

Oh wow!!!

Thank you FB - gives me lots of things to think about.

Thanks you're a diamond!

This is what I'm looking at.....

Pear - Conference - Bush (Quince A)
Plum - Victoria - Bush (St Julian A)
Apple - James Grieve - Bush (M26)

£18.50 each from R V Rogers. From what you said amI best of getting 2 apple, 2 pear and 1 plum?

Thanks again!!!!

I would say that those choices have a better-than-average chance of success as single-trees up North. they are all known for being reliable.
But I live in the mild SouthEast, so I can't be absolutely certain. They all do very well for me. I only have one plum tree (Victoria) and she crops perfectly well without apollinator, although fruits are slightly smaller (about walnut-size) as a result of self-pollination.

You probably won't need pollinators, since they are all partially self-fertile. I would be happy to grow just the three trees. Pollination ought to be adequate. Don't forget that you can't pollinate Victoria with another Victoria, nor Conference with another Conference, nor James Grieve with another James Grieve; the pollinator must be a different variety that flowers about the same time.
Bear in mind that young trees will often drop their fruit, whetehr pollinated or not; they are more interested in growing. If, after a few years (once the trees are established), fruit quantity or quality is not satisfactory, you could consider plating pollinators. But poor pollination is more likely to be due to lack of insects than lack of good pollen.
However, size and quality of fruit may be lower, due to self-pollinated (inbred) seeds.

[FB.]

well how about this for an update...

My mum not knwoing the advice on here bought me 2 lots anyway. We then tried to cancel the order but they turned up anyway. When I rang the company - they have refunded the money AND sent the trees.

So I currently have 2 of each tree, conference pear. braeburn apple, victoria plum, and cherry morello.

I'm now really tempted just to chuck them in the lotty and see what happens...

Yes, put them in and see how they go.
You could try re-grafting any that don't perform well.

[sarraceniac]

Just to reinforce what FB says about the summer 'fruit drop', I put in a D. de Comice pear last winter and was gratified when it produced 6 fruit in it's first year. I took 3 off just to leave some for tasting, and ended up with one. The tree shucked the other 2. Serves me right for being in a hurry. So if you lose some early on, don't panic.