Oneida and Late Orange plum

[rob the roller]

This is a rerun of an earlier thread.

I am looking for two varieties of plum, Oneida and Late Orange. I have tasted them and they are incredibly good. Unfortunately nobody seems to be able to supply them. Has anyone heard of either of these varieties, or has anyone ever seen them on sale? I have tried internet searched etc without success. I would prefer container grown trees, but bare roots from a reliable supplier will do.

Thanks

Rob

[sarraceniac]

Heard of Oneida. It is very rare here. In New Zealand it is only ordinary rare. Late Orange is I suspect a description and not a variety. But what it is ?????

[rustylady]

Hi Rob, I've tried Internet searching for you but with little success. Can you remember where you tasted them? Also where do you live? You don't need to give your address but if you add your location to your profile it will really help the rest of us. Just a county or town will do fine

[FB.]

If they are grown overseas, perhaps they are not suited to the UK climate (too dull, cool and wet to ripen, perhaps?).

It also sometimes happens that a variety gets re-named when taken to a different country. Even in this country, some varieties of fruit are known under different names in different areas.
For example, "Williams" pears are sold as "Bartlett" in the USA - probably named after the man who introduced them into that country.
It is also possible that it is a modern variety that is still patented or under "breeders rights", where propagation and sale of these trees is strictly controlled and licensed.

The more you can tell us about where you are and when/where you think you found these fruits, the better the chance that one of us can find a supplier.

There are many fruit varieties and rootstocks that I would love to grow, but I eventually gave up and "make do" with what is available - otherwise I'd never grow anything!

[rob the roller]

I am in Edgware in Middlesex. I found Oneida and Late Orange on a visit to Brogdale last year. The names were posted next to the trees. I have never tased plums like them. They were incredibly sweet and full of flavour. Brogdale was unable to assist and they couldn't put me on to anyone who markets them.

Rob

[FB.]

Late orange:

Late Orange - Plum - Fruit Trees - Keepers Nursery - possibly the largest range of fruit trees and soft fruit plants in the world

[Jeanied]

Rob, Keepers nursery do 'Plum, Late Orange' The only reference my search turned up for Oneida was in a trial over on the continent - so you may need to take a trip!
And I see that the estimable FB pipped me to the post!

[rob the roller]

FB, they were (are) both growing in the open at Brogdale with the other plums.

I hear what you say about making do, but if I'm going to the trouble and expense of raising fruit trees I need to be sure I'll want to eat them when I finally get fruit. It's bad enough when you grow annual vegetables and find out at the end of the season that the varieties you were sold the previous year aren't all they were cracked up to be on the packet (assuming that the name on the variety was the correct one, which isn't always the case).

Having said that, if you can recommend a sweet plum with a good flavour I will try it.

[FB.]

Ask the tree owners for some scion wood - you've just about got time to do some grafting before the new growing season begins.

You can get some St.Julien A rootstock from here (it's a bit vigorous for your needs, but better than nothing, if you're desperate):
St Julien A Rootstock For Grafting Or Budding Plum Trees Blackmoor Nurseries



In the meantime, here's an extract for Oneida from the NFC:
> Link here <

Oneida

Plum
Raised at New York State Agricultural Experiment Station, Geneva in 1937. It was introduced in 1966. Fruits have firm, sweet flesh.
Accession Number:
1976 - 082
Accession Name:
Oneida
Use:
Culinary
Parentage:
Albion (female) × Italian Prune (male)
Flowering:
10% open: 21st April
Fully open: 28th April
90% over: 2nd May
Picking time:
Late September

[rob the roller]

Thanks for the info FB and Jeanied, I will follow up the Keepers reference. Jeanied, can you tell me whereabouts on the continent the trial was held?

Thanks again.

Rob

[FB.]

FB, they were (are) both growing in the open at Brogdale with the other plums.

I hear what you say about making do, but if I'm going to the trouble and expense of raising fruit trees I need to be sure I'll want to eat them when I finally get fruit. It's bad enough when you grow annual vegetables and find out at the end of the season that the varieties you were sold the previous year aren't all they were cracked up to be on the packet (assuming that the name on the variety was the correct one, which isn't always the case).

Having said that, if you can recommend a sweet plum with a good flavour I will try it.

I appreciate that you might want the extremely tasty varieties, but there are many easy-to-find and easy-to-grow plums with great taste.
It is quite possible that these trees are not widely available due to a number of possible problems.

I'm happy to settle for less flavoursome varieties that are hardy, reliable, disease-resistant, pest-resistant and trouble free.

[FB.]

Also try a phone call to the Brodgale plant sales centre and see if they can help:

> Link here <

[Jeanied]

Thanks for the info FB and Jeanied, I will follow up the Keepers reference. Jeanied, can you tell me whereabouts on the continent the trial was held?

Thanks again.

Rob

Looks like you need a holiday in Poland, Rob! It was in Lipowa, Southern Poland - from what I glimpsed they were trialling rootstocks and grafted Oneida on and were looking at how well the grafts fared. If you google it you will be able to make more sense of it than I can!

[jaimie]

FB posted some interesting info about the plum 'Oneida"

"Oneida

Plum
Raised at New York State Agricultural Experiment Station, Geneva in 1937. It was introduced in 1966. Fruits have firm, sweet flesh.
Accession Number:
1976 - 082
Accession Name:
Oneida
Use:
Culinary"

I am wondering how the word "culinary" is defined. I always assumed that dessert meant it is sweet enough to eat from the tree whereas a culinary variety needs to be cooked and perhaps sweetened.

Apart from the Bramley all the apples I have just planted are dessert varieties, as I thought you can always cook eaters but you can't eat cookers. Do I need to rethink my assumptions?

As Rob tasted it at Brogdale doubtless it was raw so it must be sweet enough. So, how is 'culinary' defined.

[FB.]

jaimie

Yes, I am surprised that the opening poster wanted to eat those plums, yet the entries that I see list them as cookers.

Slightly off-topic.....

It is a common misunderstanding with apples that you can't eat cookers.
In some countries (or some warmer parts of the UK), what we label as "cookers" can sweeten enough to be "eaters". Likewise, in other countries (or cooler parts of the UK), what we label as "eaters" only ripen enough to be "cookers".

Straight from the tree, few people can eat cookers, although some people enjoy really sharp tastes.
Bramley is one of the most acidic cookers. Some of the other cookers can be surprisingly edible striaght from the tree.
When making apple crumble last year, I can remember that I was happy to eat raw pieces of Annie Elizabeth or Howgate Wonder. Not so with James Grieve, Grenadier or Crawley Beauty though.

Many cooking apples tend to sweeten if kept in a cool storage for a few months. By March-April, home-grown Bramley's can be reasonably palatable.

There is also a misunderstanding that if you can't eat an apple straight from the tree, then its either a cooker, or it's rubbish.
In old times, some "eating" apples - such as one of my favourites; D'Arcy Spice - would be picked as late as possible, often early November.
The fruit would be tough-skinned, very hard and very sharp. Not a very pleasing eating experience.
But these apples have tremendous keeping qualities as a result of being hard and acid. The windfalls can often sit out in the cold, in mud and rotting leaves all winter, yet still be unblemished in the spring!
Prolonged storage in a cool shed/garage "mellows" these apples into a tasty eating apple by the following spring, when most other apples have long since rotted.
They were very useful to our ancestors for their ability to provide fruit until the next season's crop was available.