Apple tree spraying?

[womble]

I have one big apple tree, unknown variety, but it's been here at least 40 years at a guess, but could be much much older.
Every year it has a good showing of blossom, the fruitlets come and some drop off as normal, about this time I start rubbing my hands together, thinking I am going to have bucketfuls of apple.

Then.... and I can't quite remember what happens, but they all fall off and go rotten, I remember that some of them have holes in them and some of them seem to have some marks on them...... but I can't remember exactly what happens when.

I also have 3 new very small trees that were planted a couple of years ago. Last year the one fruit I left on them, did exactly the same.

All I'm sure about, is that the wasps have a field day and there are drunken wasps all over the place, while the amount of apples that get used as people food is tiny.

Now, there are loads of apple trees around me in other gardens, none of them seem to have this problem, none of them are sprayed, I know that for a fact.

What is likely to be the cause and do I need to spray with anything, or something else that might help?

[FB.]

The problem is the varieties.
Some varieties are much more attractive to pests than others.
Clearly, yours are the most attractive to the pests, while the nearby trees escape due to everything attacking yours.

The pest damage will be causing the fruits to rot and drop.

Factors which really attract the wasps and maggots:

Thin skin.
Large fruit.
Crowded fruit.
Highly flavoured fruit.
Fruit ripening in August and early September.
Modern varieties seem to be very attractive to pests. Old varieties seem much less prone to pest damage. Cooking apples also tend to be less prone to pests.

The maggot attacks start a few days after the petals fall. Codling moth traps may give some control. Tying bands of corrugated cardboard around the trunk and burning once a month will cause the pupating maggots to hide in the corrugated bits and be destroyed when burned.

You could also try grease bands.

Managing to spray insecticide on such a large tree is not easy and you may well contaminate yourself, your garden, or nearby gardens. Such chemicals require extreme care in their use. I am not in favour of heavy insecticide applications, since it will also kill beneficial insects.

But no matter how hard you try, there will be pests fly-in from nearby areas, so it will be a constant battle.

As for wasp damage; either pick the fruit slightly before it is ripe, or accept the losses.
There have been claims that a "fake" wasp nest can deter wasps from coming near your trees. I plan to try it some time.

Personally, I'd get rid and start again, with varieties that have more pest resistance.
That big old tree is just a reservoir of infection.

[womble]

An excellent concise reply, much appreciated FB.

My OH won't let me get rid of the tree as it's the only big mature one we have in the garden, I wanted to get rid of it a few years ago, but I see her point of view, so I'll try with some of your suggestions.
Thanks

[FB.]

Well, if the big tree must stay, at least take comfort in the fact that it's saving other people's trees from the worst of the pest attacks.

I grow an Ellison's Orange and Scrumptious mainly to draw the pests away from my other apples.
On those two, the few unblemished apples that the pests don't damage are merely considered to be a tasty bonus; three-quarters or more of their fruit is maggoty or eaten-out by wasps.

[womble]

Just had a quick look on google and mine seems very similar to your Ellisons Orange. The date it was introduced would fit in well with when I think it may have been planted as well.
I haven't noticed the aniseed flavour I'll admit..... but then I don't get to eat many


Btw
"Well, if the big tree must stay, at least take comfort in the fact that it's saving other people's trees from the worst of the pest attacks."
Makes me feel much better, thanks

[FB.]

Elisson's Orange is reasonably popular in Cambs. It's fairly good resistance to powdery mildew is particularly useful in our low-rainfall climate. It also has good resistance to scab.
I find that mine is quite prone to canker, but in the lower-rainfal areas such as this, the trees can survive reasonably well with good attention and removal of the cankers.

Regarding the fruits; I don't notice much aniseed either - just delicious apples that eat well straight from the tree in September.
The apples from my Ellison's tend to have a slightl trace of whitish/powdery coating on the skin (the skin is yellow-green overlaid with stripy orange). This coating is like you see on some plums. The coating will wipe off and is attributed to wild yeasts. These "natural" yeasts may help protect against other fungal disease, but the natural yeasts will disappear if the trees are sprayed.

[FB.]

For the benefit of others who may think

"OK, so which apples have good resistance to pests?"

Here are some suggestions of exceptionally-pest-reistant apples, based on my experiences.
But I can't be responsible if they fail to perform in other areas!

Egremont Russet.
The classic English russet apple. Home-grown fruits will be superior (and often less-russeted) to shop-bought ones.
Ripens late September.
Easy-eaters from the tree or will keep for a few months. they may shrivel in storage but the eating quality is unaffected. The shrivelling makes the flavour more intense.
Home-grown fruit often has an orange sunny side overlaying the russet. Mine are often only slightly russeted.
Fruit is quite sweet and bursting with fruity flavours. Not much juice.
Very fertile.
Can suffer from bitter pit if fed too much nitrogen or if pruned hard. Some soils, climates or rootstock combinations can aggravate bitter pit.
Good all-round disease resistance, but prone to leaf scab (fruit is quite resistant). Scab damage to leaves could result in loss of vigour in higher rainfall areas.

Spartan.
Fruits are almost all-over dark purplish red, with a faint whitish/powdery yeast coating on the skin.
Easy-eaters straight from the tree. Fairly sweet and juicy. Slight hints of melon and strawberry flavour.
Ripens late September and keeps for a few months in good condition.
A very fertile tree that can sometimes produce an enormous crop of small-ish sized apples, unless thinned.

Crawley Beauty.
Fruits are mostly light green, with orange-red stripes on the sunny side.
Ripens October.
Dual-purpose. Fruit is quite sharp and is best used as cooker when first picked, but will keep well in storage for several months and sweetens to become an acceptable eater.
Fruit flavour is only fair - nothing special.
Very fertile tree with huge quantities of blossom.
Very late flowering and as a result, it is easy to think that your tree is dead. But the late blossom means almost no risk of frost damage.
The tree is quite compact and highly disease resistant.
With a strong rootstock (MM111 in particular, also M25), it will grow in the poorest of soils, where most other apple varieties will fail to thrive.

D'Arcy Spice.
A late-ripening relative of Egremont Russet.
Ripens early November. Fruit doesn't drop easily. Fruit is not damaged by frost if left hanging on the tree.
Fruit is too sharp for most people until it has been stored for a month or two.
The fruits will store for several months in the most basic of conditions and may be edible right through to the following summer.
The tree is abnormally weak-growing. You will need at least one rootstock larger than the textbooks state to get the size you want.
Despite its weak growth above-ground, it gradually forms a very strong root system below and, like Crawley Beauty, it will grow in poor soils where others will not thrive, if on a strong rootstock.
The tree is a partial tip-bearer and not a prolific spur producer, which can complicate pruning.
The leaves are somewhat prone to scab, but the fruits are quite resistant. Due to leaf scab reducing vigour, D'Arcy Spice may not grow well in high-rainfall areas.
Due to the very late ripening of the fruit, D'Arcy Spice may not ripen properly in more Northern areas.

[womble]

The maggot attacks start a few days after the petals fall. Codling moth traps may give some control. Tying bands of corrugated cardboard around the trunk and burning once a month will cause the pupating maggots to hide in the corrugated bits and be destroyed when burned.

You could also try grease bands.

Hi FB.

When do you tie the cardboard around the tree, is it only after the petals fall and until you pick the crop presumably?

I've just realised I forgot to take the stuff off I put on when we last talked about this

Regarding removing damaged fruitlets. Do I remove every single apple with every single blemish?

[FB.]

It's best to replace the cardboard every few months - and burn what you take off.

Dealing with the blemished fruit would depend on the type of blemish.
If that type of blemish will cause the fruit to rot, there's no point leaving the fruit, since it'll only encourage more fungal disease and wasps.
Some blemishes will heal naturally.

Can you put up a picture of the blemished fruits?
It'll help diagnose the cause of the problem....such as:

Capsid bugs
Earwigs
Codling
Sawfly
Bitter pit
Scab
...or something else?

[womble]

I had a look as I was taking the fruit off, (I never did seem to get round to taking photos) and it seems decent mixture of the above, nothing stood out and I wasn't that worried, I hadn't lost that many, I had taken more off than needed I think.

Although I have a touch of most of the above, I didn't catch a massive amount of codling moth in the traps.

So I was feeling quite good, then this week, suddenly alot of fruit started falling off, there were wasps all over them and I was trying as best I could to pick them up and stick them in the covered compost bin, but I seem to be fighting a losing battle.
I was also taking any damaged fruit off the tree I could, more seemed to be being eaten or damaged all the time. I'm getting 15+ apples a day falling off atm.

Now I think I've found the culprits, blackbirds, as soon as I take a fruit off the tree they start into another, then the wasps go straight at those, I saw one yesterday go straight at two different fruit.

My 2 new apple trees next to this old one have 4 apples on each and have perfect apples, no damage at all. My neighbours (I have 3 neighbours with apple trees) trees aren't damaged at all, like one eaten fruit on the ground, from a week.

I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it tbh. I have a fake wasps nest coming, to see if that works, but blackbirds ignore everything I have ever tried here to keep them away.

[FB.]

Unfortunately, certain varieties of apple are more attractive to pests than others.
Predisposing factors for a pest-prone apple include:

Fragrant/scented apples
Thin skin
Large size
Eating apples
Crowded fruits
Early-mid-season ripening (July-September)
Already damaged by another pest

.

[womble]

Thanks for the reply, yes they all seem to love my tree, shame, I will see how many fruit I get to eat this year and see if it's worth it, after trying so hard.