Cooking apple tree

[Brengirl]

I want a culinary apple tree. My choice would be bramley but I have not got enough room for polination partners. Does anyone know of another cooker that is suitable for a small garden. I wondered about a 'family' tree but can you get them dual purpose? Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Capsid]

I have a single Bramley in my garden and it produces plenty of apples and I don't see any apple trees in my neighbours' gardens. I wouldn't worry about a pollination partner.

[starloc]

Lord derby are a good cooking apple , partialy self fertile so should fruit without any polinating partner but there are always some other trees round, they seem to give more fruit than the bramley trees and i think there a better flavour as well

[FB.]

Once the tree has a worthwhile amount of blossom (when it's several years old), it is likely that some bees will stop by other apple trees before and after visiting yours. Apple tree pollination is not usually a problem.

But bear in mind that Bramley grows into the largest apple trees. Even on dwarf rootstocks, Bramley will get much larger than other varieties.
I have a Bramley and a Blenheim on "semi-dwarf" M26 rootstock and they grow faster than most of my "full size" M25 rootstock trees.
Bramley and Blenheim also have a longer juvenile phase before they will fruit. In fact, I agree with many people in that the vigorous varieties are best allowed to grow as unrestricted sized "full standards" for best performance, otherwise, attempts to keep them small will be a constant battle and many fruits will suffer bitter pit as the tree tries to divert resources towards growing more branches. Most vigorous varieties are prone to bitter pit as a result of the vigorous branches out-competing the fruits for nutrients.

However, there are many other good apple trees that are either self-fertile, part-self-fertile, or that seem to be unusually fertile - more easily pollinated than other varieties.

Your location, I presume, means that you get quite a lot of rain. You may find that varieties prone to scab will struggle in your area and fail to give clean crops of fruit. Bramley has a variable amount of resistance to scab - it is moderately resistant, but some parts of the country have strains of scab that can break through the resistance of Bramley.

In my experience, rootstock M26 appears to slightly improve scab resistance, while rootstock M25 seems to make many varieties slightly more prone to scab.

Some scab-resistant cookers, with reasonable all-round disease resistance and self-fertile:

Annie Elizabeth.
October ripening.
Outstanding flavour - can also make a tasty, sharp eater.
Keeps for several months in simple storage (e.g. garden shed).
Needs wind protection or the fruit will blow off.
Attractive tree - nice dense and leafy. Attractive flowers.
Very upright growth tendency, rather than spreading.
Good resistance to pests and diseases.

Crawley Beauty.
October ripening.
Average flavour.
Keeps for months.
Attractive tree, attractive flowers produced in vast quantities.
Flowers very late, avoiding frosts in most years.
Slightly smaller tree than average.
Grows in soils that lack the nutrients for other apple trees to survive.
Very good resistance to pests and diseases.

Grenadier.
August ripening.
Very good flavour but very sharp and only suitable for cooking.
Only keeps a few weeks.
Very good resistance to diseases.
Somewhat prone to surface nibbling of fruits by earwigs, snails and capsid bugs. Not particularly prone to maggots, so as a cooker, the nibbled skin can be peeled off and the fruit is still usable.
Slightly small tree.

Reverend Wilks.
August ripening.
Good flavour but very sharp and only suitable for cooking.
Only keeps a few weeks.
Very good resistance to diseases.
Somewhat prone to surface nibbling of fruits by earwigs, snails and capsid bugs. Not particularly prone to maggots, so as a cooker, the nibbled skin can be peeled off and the fruit is still usable.
Prone to biennial bearing, but nice blossom display in the "on" years.
Smaller than average tree.

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There are many other good cookers, but I'm not convinced that they'd have enough scab resistance - and I'd recommend looking at local varieties for the very best performance.

[FB.]

Lord derby are a good cooking apple , partialy self fertile so should fruit without any polinating partner but there are always some other trees round, they seem to give more fruit than the bramley trees and i think there a better flavour as well

Yes, another reliable, disease-resistant cooker.
Quite a large tree.
Fruits are very sharp and not suitable for eating. Good flavour for cooking.
I don't grow it any more because the fruit doesn't keep as long as other cookers that ripen at the same time - it goes soft and flavourless after only a few weeks.
I consider Lord Derby to be inferior to Annie Elizabeth (especially for flavour and shelf-life), so long as you can give Annie wind protection by either planting downwind of a hedge, treeline wall or building.......or by growing Annie as a bush that doesn't go much higher than your garden fence.

[Brengirl]

Wow you are all so informative and FB, "google eat your heart out". I did visit our local nursery today and was drawn to a Newton Wonder espalier. It was well trained and already bearing fruit. The gardener was a bit perplexed by it's pollination needs and suggested I wait till October time when they could offer me more choice.
This Newton Wonder was in a container, already trained about 8' wide x 6' high. 3 tier. The asking price is £55.00 and I was very tempted. If it were mine I may even get fruit this year.

[FB.]

Newton wonder is another good one. I don't grow it as it's a little too prone to powdery mildew on my poor/dry/sandy soil.
Might be OK where rainfall is a bit higher than here (mildew likes drought-stressed plants and humid days, but mildew dislikes rainfall - it is optimised as a fungal parasite of drought).
Newton Wonder is quite a big tree too - so, depending on the rootstock, you may need to keep up to date with your pruning and not let the tree "get away" from you.
Like Bramley; Newton can be prone to bitter pit as a result of the vigorous branches and also prone to biennial bearing.
Newton is able to set a crop without a pollinator.

[Brengirl]

Another variety that has caught my attention is the Cobra but I would have to buy online in October. I was hoping to fill the gap in my garden asp.

[FB.]

Cox x Bramley

I don't know much about CoBra as it hasn't been around very long (it doesn't have a track record to prove its worth), but many offspring of Cox inherit its tendency to disease, although not usually as severe as Cox.

[FB.]

I would let others (like me!) be brave and try the modern varieties (as just one tree in a larger collection) because they're as yet unproven.

I suggest going with one of the suggestions on this thread as they have a long track recored of good performance:

Annie, Crawley, Derby, Grenadier or Wilks - and possibly Newton.

Annie would be my recommendation if you can give it some shelter from wind.

Some of the above can be bought mail-order here, if you can't find locally but want one now :
> Link <

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[Brengirl]

I would let others (like me!) be brave and try the modern varieties (as just one tree in a larger collection) because they're as yet unproven.

I suggest going with one of the suggestions on this thread as they have a long track recored of good performance:

Annie, Crawley, Derby, Grenadier or Wilks - and possibly Newton.

Annie would be my recommendation if you can give it some shelter from wind.

Some of the above can be bought mail-order here, if you can't find locally but want one now :
> Link <

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Well the the time has comefor make your mind up. I looked at the link you gave and am quite taken with "Sops in Wine". However, I brought home a fruit from local market of Arthur Turner. The fullness of flavour is great. Have you knowledge of Sops in Wine and if so what's it's score?

[northepaul]

I am buying a cooking apple tree too - the Annie Elizabeth that FB mentioned.
It has very good reviews everywhere.
Can I direct you to this lot, who seem very knowledgeable:

http://www.keepers-nursery.co.uk/

Hope that helps

[FB.]

Well the the time has comefor make your mind up. I looked at the link you gave and am quite taken with "Sops in Wine". However, I brought home a fruit from local market of Arthur Turner. The fullness of flavour is great. Have you knowledge of Sops in Wine and if so what's it's score?

I think that Sops in Wine would be a gamble and apart from the unusual fruit, I'm not aware of any special features that would warrant a place in most organic growers fruit collections. I think that there are many better varieties.

Arthur Turner has many good characteristics, although there are some reports of problems with mildew, which is why I don't grow it - I'm very prone to mildew in my area (poor soil and dry weather make apples prone to mildew).

For an early cooker, I'd choose Grenadier or Reverend Wilks.
For a mid-season cooker, I'd choose Lord Derby.
For a late-season, long-keeping cooker, I'd choose Annie Elizabeth or Edward VII.
All of those suggestions should grow and crop well just about anywhere.

The above suggestions also take into account good all-round pest and disease resistance, in addition to good fruit quality.

I would leave the unusual varieties to the exprimenters, or to grow as a small cordon until it proves itself in your area.
I grow new varieties as cordons or minarettes, to see how they perform. After a few years, I then acquire or graft that variety on a stronger rootstock to grow as a bush or full-size tree.

[Brengirl]

Thanks FB. I too am leaning towards Anne Elizabeth but atm have no way of accrediting it or otherwise. The Arthur Turner is beautifully shaped, good on the eye and tastes good too.

[FB.]

Thanks FB. I too am leaning towards Anne Elizabeth but atm have no way of accrediting it or otherwise. The Arthur Turner is beautifully shaped, good on the eye and tastes good too.

In what way do you want to accredit Annie Elizabeth?

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