Newly delivered apple trees - are they diseased?

[ddiogyn]

I received delivery of some mail order apple trees today. While the previous trees i bought at a nursery had lush leaves, the ones on these don't look too good.

It could be trauma secondary to the packaging and shipping (transit time was 2 days only) or it could be disease; am not sure. There are brown dead patches on some of the leaves at the edges and within the main part, on both old and new leaves.

I've attached some pics; if it is a disease, should the nursery have shipped them?

Thanks

[BUFFS]

im not an expert,but those photos show a diseased plant to me,no way would plants deteriorate to that state in two days,they are taking the micheal sending plants out in that condition,id e mail them the photos and tell them you want healthy plants,not germ carriers....good luck with it..let us know how you get on,stop someone else being sent substandard plants.

[FB.]

Which variety and which rootstock?

There may be some scab on the leaves and a hint of aphid damage.

The whitish bits might be pesticide/fungicide residue, or perhaps powdery mildew.

All of what you see is unlikely to have occurred in transit.

Some varieties are very difficult to protect from disease, even with a rigorous spray schedule, while other varieties will just shrug off certain diseases and carry on growing through it.

As I said; variety and rootstock would be very helpful to determine whether they are acceptable, or whether they should be returned.
At the moment, I wouldn't panic.

[ddiogyn]

Thanks Buffs, FB.

I ordered them over a month ago from Van Meuwen and had completely forgotten about them till they were delivered today.

The website doesn't list the rootstock, nor does the literature supplied with the trees, nor the nursery labels on the trees themselves! The product page on their website is here.

The varieties are Golden Delicious and Gala.

Thanks

[BUFFS]

i am suprised,i have had one or two bits from them,and they were excellent,on the page you highlighted there is a contact line,bottom left,get in touch as they are a reputable firm,so you should get replacements...good luck

[FB.]

The varieties are Golden Delicious and Gala.

Thanks

Golden Delicious is very prone to leaf scab and Gala is also somewhat prone to leaf scab.
Since I don't use chemical sprays (because I believe that they can lead to knock-on effects that cause other disease problems or kill "good" creatures in the environment - there are also "good" fungi that protect your tree, but the good guys can also be killed by sprays), the leaves of my Golden Delicious end up brown-speckled and quite tattered in most seasons. The fruits are usually not affected by scab.
(see > here < ).

The fruits of both varieties are much less prone to scab than their leaves.
Leaf scab is the brownish spots and is probably causing a bit of the distortion on the leaves, which I initially pondered might be due to aphids.

Prolonged damp weather (especially early in the season) encourages scab.

The whitish patches are probably fungicide/insecticide and probably not mildew with those two varieties that you've chosen - both varieties have some resistance to mildew.

[FB.]

.

Egremont Russet, with moderate amounts of leaf scab, but unblemished fruits:





Fruit scab on Laxton's Superb (the fruit skins eventually split and the fruits rotted on the tree):




Leaf scab:

[ddiogyn]

@Buffs

I'd never ordered from them before, but had read good things about them googling around.

Given that they were sent from Guernsey via premium courier (as mentioned, took 2 days according to the postage label) they must have appeared just as lacklustre (and possibly diseased) when they were selected for my order.

@FB

The white bits flake off completely, so i guess it must be some kind of synthetic treatment, ergo it was known the trees were less-than-well? Is it usual to apply such things in the absence of disease, eg pesticides/fungicides used as a 'preventative'?

[ddiogyn]

@FB

Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I was writing the above after you'd already posted your above replies.

The fruits of both varieties are much less prone to scab than their leaves.

Do you think it would be ok to just replant the trees and let them get on with it, that is, not treat the scab, if in the case of these varieties the scab is damaging only to the aesthetic and not the health of the tree?

Thanks again!

[FB.]

edit: began typing before you replied to my earlier post!

Golden Delicious and Gala are sufficiently prone to scab (brown spots) on their leaves that it is very difficult even for nurseries and commercial orchards to prevent it completely, even with proper spray routines.

If you grow them at home, without spraying for scab, their leaves will probably look much scruffier than that every season.

I live in a warm, sunny, low-rainfall location and despite conditions that don't favour scab, my Golden Delicious leaves are very brown-spotted and tattered almost every year. Even in this "drought" year, the tree is a bit of a mess. I'll try to put up some pics on Sunday and then you'll see what a scabbed Golden Delicious tree really looks like and you'll be grateful of any season in which you only get a few tiny brown specks on the leaves like you have now!

The scab takes a bit out of their vigour, but up to a quarter of the leaf area damaged is unlikely to be serious.
If the total damaged leaf area is more than one-third, then vigour will decline, but that may or may not matter, depending on how big you want them to grow.

[ddiogyn]

They're stated to grow no more than 1m - i'm guessing they're on M27 rootstock? The looks don't bother me too much, so long as they produce the goods. I may relegate them to the back of the garden and plant them into the ground if i ever get round to de-weeding the area

Thanks once again FB for your helpful insight Would appreciate it if you could post pics of your Golden Delicious so i know what to expect!

[FB.]

A label stating 1 metre mature height almost certainly suggests M27.
When I first looked at the pictures, I thought to myself "I think they're on M27".
M27 needs good soil conditions and won't like being over-run with weeds.
I'd continue with your original plan (wherever you were planning to plant them) and see how they do for the next couple of years. After a couple of years without fungicide sprays, it is possible that "friendly fungi" will slowly re-establish themselves on your trees and these "friendly fungi" may block some of the scab attacks.

Maybe you'll be lucky and they won't suffer too badly from scab in the future, since scab infections will partly depend on the levels of scab and the bio-types in your area (some strains of scab are better at attacking certain varieties).

If the trees are small, you could probably control scab by spraying a suitable fungicide as soon as possible after prolonged rainfall. Several hours of water droplets or dew on the leaf surface is required to germinate scab spores and start an infection.

[ddiogyn]

it is possible that "friendly fungi" will slowly re-establish themselves on your trees and these "friendly fungi" may block some of the scab attacks.

Maybe you'll be lucky and they won't suffer too badly from scab in the future, since scab infections will partly depend on the levels of scab and the bio-types in your area (some strains of scab are better at attacking certain varieties).

The neighbour's trees (not sure what variety, produce lots of small apples in abundance) don't appear scabby. Is there any way to 'inoculate' my trees with friendly fungi or encourage their growth?

Will put them in 15L buckets for now and see how they get on.

Cheers

[FB.]

The link below shows a video of a Court Pendu Plat apple tree, which has the typical brownish scabbed leaves that I'd expect to see on Golden Delicious and many of the old apple varieties (especially russeted varieties).

Note the considerably scabbed leaves on the Court Pendu Plat in the video, yet all of the fruit is clean and healthy. That's why my "apple variety" data differentiates between leaf scab (cosmetic and reduces vigour) compared to fruit scab (results in fruits rotting on the tree).


YouTube - Apple variety Court Pendu Plat

I hope that I haven't broken any forum rules by posting the video link.

[ddiogyn]

Thanks for the vid link FB.