Newly delivered apple trees - are they diseased?

[chrisguk]

I too watch stephen hayes; has some good info so make sure to subscribe to him!

I myself have a set of these minarette trees, but ordered them through Telegraph about 3 years ago. Im not completely aware of how scab prone they have been, but sprayed early and with long intervals this year and they do look great; little scab, nice and lush growth.

Im surprised you received them at this time, i received mine early january when they were just a stick in a pot.

I dont like to spray, but do it through necessity, as its much wetter up North!

Apparently, chives planted at the base of apple trees wards of scab? Something to a bit of reading about.

[FB.]

The author of the video seems to be fairly knowledgeable.

I've also heard (read?) that chives reduce scab. Since I try to have "bee friendly" plants (bees love chives), I have a number of chives dotted around. I can't say that I'd noticed any positive effects on the trees.

But quite how growing chives near to an apple tree could prevent a fungal infection of the apple trees leaves or fruits leaves me puzzled........

I've often been told of abandoned commercial orchards - for the first few years after abandonment they are devastated by severe scab, but after a few years, the chemical residues get washed away or decompose and the "friendly fungi" gradually return to colonise the orchard. The return of the "good fungi" drives out much of the scab and other "bad fungi".
Even the scab-prone varieties can give a reasonable proportion of scab-free fruits once nature is back into balance.

[ddiogyn]

Chives? Interesting... Is there anything in addition - edible or otherwise - that can be planted around the base of potted trees that would either provide some beneficial service, or at least pretty up the soil without having a negative impact on tree growth? I have large thyme bush that could do with thinning, would it compete too much with the (new potted) trees if i were to plop them together? The trees look rather pathetic at the moment, twigs poking out the ground.

[littleexperience]

Chives? Interesting... Is there anything in addition - edible or otherwise - that can be planted around the base of potted trees that would either provide some beneficial service, or at least pretty up the soil without having a negative impact on tree growth? I have large thyme bush that could do with thinning, would it compete too much with the (new potted) trees if i were to plop them together? The trees look rather pathetic at the moment, twigs poking out the ground.

if your pots are big enough why not try planting strawberries around the edges of the pots so you strawberries hang over the side for easy picking or if its flowers you fancy why not plant bulbs like daffodils around the pot. either way it will certainly bring bees into your garden in spring and help pollinate your trees.thats what i do on my apple trees mine are in half whisky barrels but any pot similar in size would do the trick just the same

[FB.]

I've been told that clover is a good nitrogen-fixer.
The bees love it too.

But beware with M27 that you don't starve them - M27 is not very good at competing for nutrients or water.

[chrisguk]

I agree with FB, M27 rootstocks are easy to starve, particularly when grown in pots; strawberry plants would take to much nourishment and water from the soil and i do believe your trees would suffer.

I do have an Apple Scrumptious in the ground, surrounded by 2 large thyme plants, and this year it is full of fruits, possibly 30 upwards.

There are other herbs which partake in a beneficial relationship when planted under a tree; for example some reduce the amount of nematodes in the soil, while others repel certain pests such as aphid - again, a bit of reading to do

Question to FB - Is that your Laxton's Superb in the picture? I planted one back in january on a M9 rootstock, and this summer has produced 2 fruits which have the distinctive look shown in your picture.

[FB.]

Question to FB - Is that your Laxton's Superb in the picture? I planted one back in january on a M9 rootstock, and this summer has produced 2 fruits which have the distinctive look shown in your picture.

Yes, the picture below is from my Laxton's Superb.
The fruits are greenish, with a pink-purple tinge on the sunny side. I think that they look quite attractive - when not scabbed!
Laxton Superb fruit is rather prone to scab early in the season (and subsequent splitting/rotting). Leaves seem more resistant.
The fruits are a very pleasing flavour (strong, pleasant, apple flavour without too much acidity), but not much juice.
I like Laxton's Superb, but I wouldn't grow it anywhere else in the country, since it's too prone to scab on the fruits if caught by prolonged rain in May-July. Only suitable for the drier parts of the UK unless you're prepared to spray against scab. The tree has good resistance to canker and mildew, which is useful.

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[chris]

FB- will you hurry up and setup a nursery, so we can buy from you - dammit!

[FB.]

I'd love to set up a specialised nursery, but I suspect that it's not as easy as it sounds and I doubt that there's enough demand for the kind of varieties that I'd choose for organic or spray-free growing.

With the really cheap "clearance" stuff available from many places (look how popular the "bargains" are on here), and with people not usually caring what kind of apple tree they plant on their lottie (regardless of disease problems associated with certain varieties), I doubt that I'd have much chance of competing. I'd be lucky to break even. I would want to focus on quality plants - but quality costs more money. Many nurseries are happy to churn out junk as cheap as possible. Most buyers look for cheapest prices, without considering why something might be so cheap.

My local soil is so awful that even the weeds die, and establishment of new plants is very slow, with many casualties. I'm trying to get a pool of rootstocks growing up for grafting, but their growth rates are painfully slow due to the sandy, shallow soil and not much rainfall.
I need better soil. I need to find a nice piece of fenland on which to grow some things - I've been looking for a few years, but nothing has come up that meets my preferences for size, soil type, location, road access (and price tag!).

[purplekat]

I like Laxton's Superb, but I wouldn't grow it anywhere else in the country, since it's too prone to scab on the fruits if caught by prolonged rain in May-July. Only suitable for the drier parts of the UK unless you're prepared to spray against scab. The tree has good resistance to canker and mildew, which is useful.

It's interesting you say that, I had a Laxton's Superb on a duo tree with an Elstar and don't remember any problems with scab - certainly not on the fruit anyway. I never sprayed it with anything.

[FB.]

It's interesting you say that, I had a Laxton's Superb on a duo tree with an Elstar and don't remember any problems with scab - certainly not on the fruit anyway. I never sprayed it with anything.

Interesting.
Did you grow your tree in the open ground, or was it in a pot?
Was the tree somewhat protected from the weather by a wall or roof overhang?
Do you know which rootstock it was grafted to?

You mention *had* as opposed to *have* - what happened to the tree?

[chrisguk]

Well mine seems pretty much clear of apple scab which is great, is grown in the ground.

Ive got 2 M27 rootstocks and have only tried grafting once so far, but no success! Could also do with propagating my own rootstock; cuttings dipped in growth hormone didnt seem to work!

[purplekat]

Interesting.
Did you grow your tree in the open ground, or was it in a pot?
Was the tree somewhat protected from the weather by a wall or roof overhang?
Do you know which rootstock it was grafted to?

You mention *had* as opposed to *have* - what happened to the tree?

It was grown in open ground, partly sheltered by a big oak tree (on the prevailing wind side) - I'm afraid I don't know what rookstock it was on but it was fairly dwarf, I'd guess at M26.

It had to go to make way for a climbing frame for my daughter - I'm now starting to plant some new trees as cordons so I can fit a few into a small space and screen off the climbing frame.
I was going to try Laxtons again as it was a lovely tasting apple - do you think it would grow ok as a cordon? - I went on a course to graft some myself and they used MM106, think I might do the same again next year to do some more.

[FB.]

I'd be hesitant to grow Laxton's Superb as a cordon for a few reasons:

Mine produces quite a lot of apples on the tips of branches, rather than spurs.
Tip-bearers (or part-tip-bearers) are a little more awkward to grow as restricted forms because you have to be more careful with pruning.

Secondly, Laxton's Superb tends to have quite long and thin new growth each year, which might look untidy until pruned hard in July.

Thirdly, due to longer and thinner branches, the tree develops a spreading or slightly weeping habit, which will make shaping and training more difficult, due to the branches bending under the weight.

Fourthly, Laxton's Superb is quite vigorous. Unless your soil is relatively poor, I'd steer away from trying to grow vigorous varieties as cordons.

You might find that it'd do reasonably well as a fan or espalier, against a wall.
The wall would make supporting of the branches easier, would protect somewhat from wet/scab and might reduce the vigour due to the base of walls being relatively dry.
Laxton's Superb is happy to produce lots of long branches, which would make fan-training fairly easy.

If it performed well for you in the past, then it might be worth the challenge.

[purplekat]

I've got a spare bit of wall so might have a go - I like a challenge!
thank you