Unproductive Apple and pear tree

[RobP]

Hi, new to the grapevine, apologies if this has been covered in previous posts.

I have recently moved into my new house, in the garden are an apple and a pear tree, no idea of types, but both are fairly small but look as though they've been there a while so they're probably on dwarf rootstock...

This year we've had all of 3 pears and probably 5 apples (pears are still golf ball size still) apples tennis ball size.

Judging from the rest of the garden when we moved in they've probably not been cared for as much as they need to be really productive.

Basically I was wondering what I could do to encourage a better crop next year? Do I need to cut it back to encourage new growth etc?

Any ideas?

Thanks very much,

Rob

p.s. This forum is fantastic, have already answered so many of my questions about fruit and veg growing through rummaging through old threads etc!

[rustylady]

Hi Rob - welcome to the Vine. As your trees are small I would think they are quite young. How small is quite small? Preferably feet and inches as I'm old school. Are they planted in the ground or in pots?

[RobP]

Hi - thanks!

The apple tree is about 8ft tall, fairly bushy, maybe 6ft diamater?

The pear tree is maybe 10-11ft, but much less bushy - it looks leggy.

Cheers,

Rob

[BeatTheSeasons]

You can probably get an idea of how old they are from the trunks and how gnarled they look.

Pears flower early in the year and so are susceptible to frost. My grandparents regularly had very few pears on their tree, and they took very good care of EVERYTHING in their garden.

One possibility for the apples is that you have no other trees flowering in the same vicinity, as most apple trees are not self-fertile. Perhaps one or two insects managed to make a long journey from a tree some distance away, which is why you only have a small number of fruits?

[FB.]

This year, a lot of fruit blossom was killed by late frost, resulting in poor fruit production.

Some trees are also biennial bearers - giving super-heavy crops, but only every second season, with only a light crop in their "off" years.

Pollination might also be a problem. If all the apples are the same type, or are related (e.g. three Cox's or varieties related to Cox) , they are basically clones or in-breeding and often will not cross-pollinate.

It could also be that the trees are not mature enough. Although they may be small, perhaps they're only a few years old and still growing. While trees are growing up to their full size, crops are light or non-existent.

Also, if the previous owners were careless about pruning, the way that they pruned the trees could have resulted in cutting off all the parts that would have carried fruit.

Small fruit could be due to the long dry summer, or it could be a feature of the variety. It could also be a sign of an immature tree that isn't ready to fruit properly.

Lack of fruit could also be because pests (codling moth in particular) have caused damage to the fruits, which have then dropped off the tree before you took possession of the house.

.

It's too late in the year to force them to flower next year (other than flowers that they've formed by themselves).
I suggest no pruning until next summer (mid July - mid August), when it would be an ideal time to prune all new green shoots back to just an inch or two in length.
A hard pruning of new growth in the height of summer will considerably increase fruit bud and flower formation in the following couple of seasons.
Of course, losing all those new shoots at the peak of the season will slow the tree down considerably and keeps the tree quite small.

I also suggest no feeding and no watering unless they look really stressed by drought. Fruit trees produce more blossom and more fruit of higher quality on relatively poor soils and in relatively harsh conditions; it's stress that induces trees to flower and fruit. Treat 'em mean. If you love, cuddle, feed, water and worry about pruning an established tree, it'll keep growing to the heavens without fruiting.

[RobP]

You can probably get an idea of how old they are from the trunks and how gnarled they look.

Pears flower early in the year and so are susceptible to frost. My grandparents regularly had very few pears on their tree, and they took very good care of EVERYTHING in their garden.

One possibility for the apples is that you have no other trees flowering in the same vicinity, as most apple trees are not self-fertile. Perhaps one or two insects managed to make a long journey from a tree some distance away, which is why you only have a small number of fruits?

The trunks are gnarled, uninformed opinion of course but I think they've been in for quite some time.

We had a really severe frost in early may if I remember correctly (promptly killing half of the veg and flowers we'd just put in having done up the garden!), just after we moved in, now that you mention it I do remember losing a lot of the blossom on the pear tree. Thanks for prompting my memory there then!!

Pollination might also be a problem. If all the apples are the same type, or are related (e.g. three Cox's or varieties related to Cox) , they are basically clones or in-breeding and often will not cross-pollinate.

Also, if the previous owners were careless about pruning, the way that they pruned the trees could have resulted in cutting off all the parts that would have carried fruit.

Lack of fruit could also be because pests (codling moth in particular) have caused damage to the fruits, which have then dropped off the tree before you took possession of the house.

It's too late in the year to force them to flower next year (other than flowers that they've formed by themselves).
I suggest no pruning until next summer (mid July - mid August), when it would be an ideal time to prune all new green shoots back to just an inch or two in length.
A hard pruning of new growth in the height of summer will considerably increase fruit bud and flower formation in the following couple of seasons.
Of course, losing all those new shoots at the peak of the season will slow the tree down considerably and keeps the tree quite small.

I also suggest no feeding and no watering unless they look really stressed by drought. Fruit trees produce more blossom and more fruit of higher quality on relatively poor soils and in relatively harsh conditions; it's stress that induces trees to flower and fruit. Treat 'em mean. If you love, cuddle, feed, water and worry about pruning an established tree, it'll keep growing to the heavens without fruiting.

There is only one tree, but there is an apple tree in pretty much every garden on my street and a pretty much all of them are full of fruit so I don't think pollination is the problem, unless its a species thing like you say. How close do the trees need to be for successful pollination?

I think ill just hard prune it back next summer like you suggested FB and hope for the best.

Thanks very much guys, appreciate the advice

[FB.]

How close do the trees need to be for successful pollination?

Pollination is usually good if there is a suitable pollinator in a neighbours garden. Suitable pollinator means an unrelated variety, with fertile pollen that flowers at the same time as your tree; some apple varieties are poor pollinators and each apple variety has its specific flowering time that doesn't necssarily match the time your neighbours tree flowers.
It is often possible that a tree in a nearby street will pollinate yours. Occasionally, bees can carry pollen between trees that are miles apart.

If there are neighbouring trees with good fruit loads, pollination is probably adequate.
Maybe it's a problem with your particular variety......
- some apple varieties are erratic or biennial cropping, although they often have plus points that make their erratic croping tolerable. Plus points can include exceptional flavour, resistance to pests, diseases, frosts, poor soils, windy conditions, salty air, or long storage life of the fruit.

- some apple varieties are very attractive to pests - and these pests will often head straight for certain varieties, while leaving other apple varieties untouched. Perhaps your tree is the pests favourite and the fruit load is light because the rest has been lost to pests?

Any chance of a picture of the fruits and leaves of your trees? There's a small chance that someone here could identify the variety you have, which, after finding out which variety you have, it might explain your lack of fruit.

[RobP]

I'll try and grab one but I'm going to be offline for 2 weeks as of tomorrow so I may have to be left in suspense while on my holidays.

Will get back to you asap when I'm back, thanks for your help so far though.