step-overs

[gan heather]

I want to add some fruit trees to my plot this year and would really like to train them as step-overs. My plot is 14 feet wide and I was wondering whether it would be better to grow one or two apple trees in that space?

[hailtryfan]

I've been thinking of planting some step overs in my allotment too. Not grown them before but from what I can make out from my research they grow to about 12 foot wide. Sounds like you have the perfect space.

[hailtryfan]

I've been reading a bit more about this and have found out about a second type of stepover. Instead of growing the tree like an extreme version of a an espalier with branches on each side, you can grow stepovers like a cordan tree that you bend over so the main leader is horizontal. This way you could fit two 6 foot trees planted 7 feet apart and so grow more varieties.

Now I'm not sure which one to do myself!

[gan heather]

I think I'm interested in growing the step-over that's like an espalier, but with only one layer. So, I guess one tree planted in the middle of the 14 feet should be ok.

[Nicos]

I fancy doing that down one side of a path in my field- to seperate the veggie section from the chook section.
I've room for quite a few so I'm going to need to research the right varieties which will tolerate temps of 35C full sun down to -15C and full NE wind rushing up from a valley!

[hailtryfan]

I've room for quite a few so I'm going to need to research the right varieties which will tolerate temps of 35C full sun down to -15C and full NE wind rushing up from a valley!

Blimey! Thats some ask. Do you have any friendly apple growing locals to ask what grows well round your way?

Another thought gan heather, what rootstock are you planning to use? A very dwarfing rootstock like M27 may struggle to grow to 12foot across, especially if you have poor soil.

[Nicos]

We do indeed have local fruit tree nursaries...and when I decide what to get, I'd share it with you all!
( oh...and acid soil to cope with too!)
....be interesting to see what FB suggests compared to what's available over here

[VirginVegGrower]

I am resurrecting this thread as I am interested to know if Nicos or anyone else has or is thinking of planting stepovers at the moment. I am looking for two old varieties with good tasting eating apples. Possibly unusual old English varieties which will appreciate a free draining loam - the allotment. I want two as a hedge down a long side. I don't like a russet so anything else considered with a crunch, juice, sweet but slight sharpness. looks are not a factor. It's taste I am after! Anyone gone for M26 as per FB's suggestion?

Thanks in advance.

[VirginVegGrower]

Anybody? FB where are you when I need you?

[FB.]

VVG

Your spacing or rootstock choice would depend on the quality of the soil, adequate rainfall and how big you want them to get.
Roughly speaking, trained forms could spread about as far - or a little more - as they would if grown as a bush. The summer pruning of trained forms means that they can be kept smaller than their potential.
M26 about 1.5-2metres. MM106 about 3.5metres but very fussy about adequate moisture retention and not too much heat in the soil (the hot, dry sandy soil in the sunny/mild South/Eastern UK will transform MM106 into a semi-dwarf of M9-M26 size; MM106 really doesn't like hot and dry but thrives in cool and moist soil <never saturated!> - and will rival MM111 in certain cool/moist conditions).
You may find that MM106 gets surprisingly large in your soil/climate.

As for varieties to choose:
For your climate/rainfall, I would suggest you look for varieties with at least partial resistance to both scab and canker and also avoid any which are noted to be susceptible to mildew.

Unfortunately, the most disease-resistant or difficult-condition-tolerant apples tend to be large cooker/dual-purpose (a bit sharp-tasting), or russeted, or have some quirk such as erratic cropping.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of many which are known to meet the relevent criteria and which would also ripen well and thrive in your climate, but if there are some varieties which interest you (perhaps local varieties) I would be happy to give a comment or look through my old books/catalogues.

[VirginVegGrower]

Hi FB, thanks for response - the length in question is about five metres so maybe two at 2m span - M26 would be good? I would love to try old local varieties. I suppose I am trying to protect a forgotten variety but with taste. Have so many cooker trees around us I could supply a supermarket, so eating apples are my must have. There is a very old orchard at the back of us, attached to an old folly. We tried an apple there which was tiny and hard, did not store well but the juice from it's pure white flesh was unbelievable. There are a number of varieties in there which must go back quite some years. It has to be about taste, yield less important than taste, age over new variety everytime, but agree I need some inbuilt disease resistance. If you would be so kind as to look through your books I would be very grateful because the usual catalogues don't carry the rarer fruits. I did wonder if a wander through Herefordshire might be an idea...

[VirginVegGrower]

Pitmaston Pineapple on an M26 I have found with a description of taste that sounds like something we would eat. It does describe a russet. Any thoughts FB as I have never heard of this one.

[FB.]

There aren't many currently-known varieties of apple which are from Derbyshire. That could suggest a problem with soil, climate or disease.
What is your soil like?
I suggest checking depth, fertility, drainage and pH of your soil. An educated guess of your soil type can be made by looking at the type of plants which grow well in your area because certain plants require/prefer certain soils.

If something (such as eating apples) are not common in your area, it's probably because they suffer from some problem. I suspect that there's a reason why cookers are prevalent in your area; they tend to be more resistant to disease.

[FB.]

Pitmaston Pineapple is somewhat russeted (which you said that you don't like).
Biennial cropping.
Considered to have good resistance to scab and not particularly prone to other diseases.

It is probably worth a try, in the absence of other ideas (and a refusal to accept cookers).

As I said in a previous post - analyse your soil and see whether there is a sinister problem which you don't want to find out later, the hard way.

[VirginVegGrower]

OK I will look at a sample of the soil. We do have eaters around us and lots of them, but they are the usual Cox's, James Grieve and then all those in that old orchard. These are for my allotment which is a free draining sandy loam, very fine crumbed. There are other apple trees there, a couple of cookers, a large red ribbed apple which is an eater and a couple of crab apples. There doesn't appear to be a problem growing apples but I am not that knowledgeable on the intricacies of fruit growing.