Which would you plant?

[FB.]

I have several "spare" apple trees - on vigorous rootstocks - which I intend to use as replacements for some of the trees that died during summer 2010.

Some of my decisions have already been made, but I have four excellent trees and only two (maybe three) sites in which to plant them.
They are on vigorous rootstocks (MM111 or M25), so are capable of growing into good-sized (half-standard) trees when they mature.

The Poll is multiple choice: you can vote for as many or as few as you please.

I have to choose two (maybe three) of these four apple varieties:

Brownlees Russet

First and Last

Smart's Prince Arthur

Winston

.

I'm torn between many different ideas for choosing between them:

Brownlees Russet: for the excellent candyfloss pink blossom - and a proven history of excellent pest/disease resistance in my area.

First and Last: for the novelty of longer ripening season (hence the name) and for the extreme rarity of the variety (to help preserve the ancient genetics). I'm not sure whether it's suited to my climate and the local diseases though, since I haven't had it for long enough to form an opinion

Smart's Prince Arthur: for the unusual fruit, the unusual/attractive weeping tree habit and the rarity of an old variety (to help preserve the old genetics).
Again, I am not sure how well it is suited to my climate as I haven't grown it for long enough to evaluate it.

Winston: for the nice neat tree, attractive blossom, general all-round good performance (very fertile, good pest/disease resistance).

Basically, it boils down to:
Do I go for very rare old varieties, but which are unproven in my climate?

or

Do I go for other old varieties that are a bit less rare, but which have proven to be good performers?

or

One of each? - and if so, which?

Thanks,
FB

[smallblueplanet]

Am I right in assuming you have other apple varieties that probably span the seasons and uses?

If so I would go for the very rare old varieties, particularly Smarts.

[FB.]

Thanks, smallblueplanet.

What particularly draws you to the Smart's Prince Arthur?

Regarding my other trees: yes, I have many varieties that cover the whole season.

[smallblueplanet]

Liked the idea of a 'weeping' apple tree, sounds interesting. And easier to pick?

[vicky]

I'm with SBP and as a scientist I think you will be interested to know how well they do for you...

[FB.]

I'm with SBP and as a scientist I think you will be interested to know how well they do for you...

Yes, that's true - I am curious. Normally, I grow varieties as cordons for a few years, taking notes of their performance. If successful as cordons, I then give the cordon away and plant a larger tree.

Another thing about having the old varieties is that the apple gene pool is becoming very small, since most apples nowadays are bred from Cox, Worcester or Golden Delicious. Inbreeding and diseases that are well-adapted to attack those family lines could soon become a big problem.

I would also like to give a home to some very rare varieties, if I can justify it.

But I worry about:

1.
How well will they tolerate the conditions in my area? The soil is quite poor, so the trees need to be tough to survive.

2.
Why have "First and Last" and "Smart's Prince Arthur" fallen out of favour, yet "Brownlees Russet" and "Winston" are a bit more widely available?

3.
Growing half-standards will take many years, which is a long time to wait to find out if I made a bad choice (although they'd make lovely firewood if I cut them down! ).

[smallblueplanet]

...
I would also like to give a home to some very rare varieties, if I can justify it.

But I worry about:

2.
Why have "First and Last" and "Smart's Prince Arthur" fallen out of favour, yet "Brownlees Russet" and "Winston" are a bit more widely available?

I know what you mean, we started out growing veggies and looked for the best to suit us in the catalogues. Then we decided we wanted to try as many varieties as possible and now we try and grow stuff that 'works'. But we have limited space...

Even so if you likened apples to potatoes then whenever there's a 'what's the best spud' thread although there may be some consensus it's never 100%. So maybe the apples won't be as prolific or as tough or as tasty, but if one of the reasons you're growing them is for genetic diversity then that doesn't matter so much. And its possible that even if everyone hates them or finds them difficult you might love them? The only way to be sure is try them!

[bharper1]

FB sounds like you need a bigger garden so you can plant all 4

[Nicos]

The 2 rare- for the above reasons, and the russet because it sounds pretty in the Spring- and I love the russet flavours ( which are hard to find in the shops)

[hailtryfan]

Hi FB,

You haven't mentioned what they taste like! I would go with the trees that proiduce the tastiest fruit. Then again, if you already have loads of different apples and it's more for preserving a variety than eating, go with the heritage varieties.

[Speed Gardener]

As mentioned above, if you already have plenty of apples growing already, I would try the old varieties. If they don't do well, there's always the fireplace, and you can the plant the other types!

[northepaul]

I opted for the russet, because: a) I like russet apples tastewise,(although I must admit to some ignorance of other russets except egremont and curiousity would get the better of me) b) I also like a tree that has some aesthetic beauty and the blossom sounds delightful. c) if this type of tree is proven around your area to show good resistance to disease etc and after reading of your continuing problems with soil etc, it seems common sense to go for it.

[Mell]

Smart's Prince Arthur & First and Last for 2 (any chance of any scion please ?), plus the russet if space for three, although I'd probably find somewhere for all 4 by grafting onto other trees, added advantage of fruit quicker too

[gojiberry]

If it was me planting It would have to be Winston as I think it is the one most likely to give me a good crop with least problems. However FB you are the man so if anyone can grow these four apple trees on your plot then you can. I think in your position I'd go for one heritage and one of the others and if you find space for three then add the other heritage.

Ian

[FB.]

First and Last for 2 (any chance of any scion please ?),

The trees are young and the First and Last in particular has very very slender shoots (not more than 5-6mm). I'd prefer not to chop at it this winter as trees struggle here, but by all means keep in touch and I'll send you some scions once the tree is growing strongly.