Apple rootstock

[kenny38]

Can you grow your own apple rootstock ie. M26 M27?

[bharper1]

I know you can buy them for a couple of pound each from what i have seen. Checkout Blackmoor... not sure about growing your own though.

Apple tree rootstocks, Apple Tree Specialists

[FB.]

I'm not sure what you mean by "grow your own rootstock", but this may help:

I have several rootstocks - M26, MM106, MM111 - which have never been grafted. I keep them as a stock from which I can propagate more in the future.
Apples are very difficult to root from cuttings and apple pips will not produce a tree of the same type from which them came.

Normally, apple propagation is by growing rootstocks as trees, then cut them down to the ground in the winter.
Next spring, many shoots will spring up from where the tree was cut off at ground level. By piling damp sawdust, compost or soil up these soft young shoots, they can be encouraged to root after a season or two.
The rooted shoots are then cut off at ground level during winter time (to be used as rootstocks) and the rootstock will grow new shoots again the following year.

A few nurseries offer rootstocks onto which you can graft your own trees.
> Link here <
Or you can buy a cheap tree from a discount store during the winter and cut off the top, leaving just the rootstock.
Rootstocks will produce apples if left to grow as a full tree, but often the apples are of poorer quality than average apples. The rootstocks may also not have much resistance to diseases that could attack the top of the tree.
M27 rootstock is very slow to propagate: it needs excellent soil to make it grow and even then it only grows slowly. I'd suggest that anything weaker than M26 would be difficult for an organic grower.

Alternatively, Golden Delicious seedlings are claimed to make reasonable rootstocks for full-size trees. I've personally found shop-bought Cox and Gala seedlings to be very prone to disease and difficult to sustain without chemical protection, whereas Discovery seedlings are reasonably resistant to diseases.

[kenny38]

Thanks for your help.

I will buy a couple of M26 rootstocks and use your ad ice

[FB.]

kenny

Where are you located? I might be able to help with the M26.

What do you intend to use the rootstocks for? While you have a thread running, you may as well check that the rootstock will work with whatever you have planned.
Generally speaking, if you're going by "the books", you'll find that the size guides given are for trees in good soil and favourable conditions - of the type found in commercial orchards.
In many parts of the country - especially when trees are under attack by pests and diseases - the "book" size is merely a fantasy number.
Also bear in mind that some apple varieties grow much faster and larger than others.
For example: Bramley is a monster that produces so much growth hormone that it will often literally "supercharge" even the dwarfing rootstocks.
On the other hand, there are apple varieties that grow so slowly that when grafted to a dwarf rootstock, the tree goes nowhere.
Hopefully this link will give you some ideas on tree sizes:
> Tree size estimation <

[kenny38]

I live in Newcastle.

I intend to graft from a few apple trees which are in my parents friends garden

I do not know the varieties.

[FB.]

For what it's worth, if I lived "up North", I would choose either M26 or MM111 rootstock (depending on the size of tree that I wanted) because M26 and especially MM111 are hardier than the other commonly-available UK rootstocks.
Last winter killed several of my M25's and also killed a handful of my MM106's, yet my M26's and MM111's were OK.

[kenny38]

Also my mother has a large crab apple tree in her garden.

Is it possible to graft an apple tree to this or will it effect the size of the apples?

When is the best time to collect scions and when is it best to graft them onto a rootstock?

Can you buy just the scions from anywhere?

[bharper1]

Kenny, i beleive you take scion cuttings in the autumn and store them in the fridge ready for the spring for grafting. I would checkout Stephen Hayes on YouTube who has some very usfull videos on grafting.

YouTube - Kanal von stephenhayesuk

[FB.]

Also my mother has a large crab apple tree in her garden.

Is it possible to graft an apple tree to this or will it effect the size of the apples?

When is the best time to collect scions and when is it best to graft them onto a rootstock?

Can you buy just the scions from anywhere?

You should be able to graft a normal apple tree onto a crab apple.
Although the crab apple part will have a small effect on what you graft, the effect will only be minor and you wouldn't notice. In fact, I think that M27 and M26 rootstocks are crab apples, whereas MM106 is a regular apple (bred from the famous US apple variety: "Northern Spy").
The fruit from those M27 or M26 rootstocks is sometimes slightly smaller, slightly sharper and slightly earlier ripening than the same fruit on the larger rootstocks. But, again, you would barely notice if I hadn't mentioned it and it partly depends on scion-rootstock interactions. Some scion/root combinations work really well, whereas other scion/root combinations cause problems.


I've seen blackmoor offer scions in mid-winter.
Some people collect their scion wood and either stick the cut end into the ground until the scion is needed (to prevent dehydration). Others put scions into bags in their fridge.
Grafting can be done in winter or in summer (but not spring or autumn), but the techniques are different at the different times of the year.

[kenny38]

Thank you for all your help

I've never tried grafting apples yet but I'm looking forward to giving it a go

[Mell]

I stick the tops of the rootstock (ie the bits I cut off prior to grafting) into pots of soil to make new rootstocks. (this is also done commercially ) MM106 takes well, M27 is harder, M9 reasonabily

[Mell]

BTW don't put scions in the frige with other ripening fruit, it will prevent bud growth I use a dedicated old (non self defrosting)fridge. But i do a lot cold garage might work better for most !

[Paulieb]

I'm not sure what you mean by "grow your own rootstock", but this may help:

I have several rootstocks - M26, MM106, MM111 - which have never been grafted. I keep them as a stock from which I can propagate more in the future.
Apples are very difficult to root from cuttings and apple pips will not produce a tree of the same type from which them came.

Normally, apple propagation is by growing rootstocks as trees, then cut them down to the ground in the winter.
Next spring, many shoots will spring up from where the tree was cut off at ground level. By piling damp sawdust, compost or soil up these soft young shoots, they can be encouraged to root after a season or two.
The rooted shoots are then cut off at ground level during winter time (to be used as rootstocks) and the rootstock will grow new shoots again the following year.

Is this the main method for mass production of rootstocks or is there another method? For instance Blackmoor and Ashridge must require huge amounts to build their own stock, plus they have hundreds available just to buy as rootstocks?

[orangepippin]

Is this the main method for mass production of rootstocks or is there another method? For instance Blackmoor and Ashridge must require huge amounts to build their own stock, plus they have hundreds available just to buy as rootstocks?

The main method is called "the Netherlands" ...