Planting help please

[BB48]

Hello All

I ordered the five mini fruit trees in the October magazine issue. One has now arrive and I need advice on planting please.

I had intended on growing in tubs and bought some of the large rubber buckets but on seeing the little twig that is my apple tree I wonder if the buckets are too big. The trees are only supposed to grow to 1 metre so if i grow in a big tub will they grow larger than that - I dont want them much bigger than that. If they are only ever going to grow to 1 meter I could grow in the ground but liked the idea of being able to move about.

Also what is the best compost to grow them in - I was thinking of a mix of my own compost with some topsoil or John Innes no 3.

I have never grown fruit trees so need all the advice I can get on giving my new babes a good start.

Thanks

BB

[FB.]

If they are supposed to reach 1m (3ft), then I suspect that you have rootstock M27.

M27 is only suitable for very good soil (or container growing). Unless your garden soil is exceptionally fertile and doesn't dry out in summer, M27 will not thrive and may not grow at all.
M27's roots are also too weak to compete against other plants: other plants will grab the water and nutrients quickly - before the slow-to-grow and slow-to-respond apple roots.
It is also not happy about being neglected - you'll have to water regularly during the summer (perhaps every two days in really hot weather). Potted plants are very prone to drying out, since the water quickly drains out of the bottom of pots and the strong sun on the pots heats up the soil within, causing it to dry faster.

I would say: if it's on M27, it'll need all the goodness you can give it: no pot will be too large and no soil will be too good.
Quite often, M27 refuses to grow at all after about the age of 4-5 years, so you need to get it moving while it's still young and before it becomes "spur-bound".
After 4-5 years, even if it does grow, it will probably only grow a couple of inches per year.
If a branch gets accidentally broken off or diseased, it could take years to re-grow.
The super-dwarf apple rootstocks are prone to having only a few weak, straggly and droopy branches. You may need to lightly prune it each winter, never prune in summer and not let it carry much fruit before it has reached full size.

With any apple tree, you can control size with pruning (pruning in late July will also reduce next year's growth). In any case, most apple trees - even super-dwarf ones - will need a little pruning from time to time, to guide them in the right direction and to keep them neat and tidy.
Most people plant an apple tree and then leave it. Only once it gets too big, too crowded or long/straggly do they seek help in getting it under control. The required surgery is often severe.
It is far better to anticipate a tree that will be badly-shaped in advance and guide its growth with pruning in the early years, to save having to do major and traumatic surgery in later years.

[BB48]

Thanks for that FB. It looks like a whole new learning curve for me then. I'll put the apple tree in a big tub then but it will look a bit daft as it is only about 2ft tall! The others are going to be a cherry, plum and pear. Will they pollinate each other or should I have doubled up on each?

[FB.]

The different types of fruit tree will not pollinate each other.
If you had doubled-up, they still won't pollinate each other.
Why? Because if you have two Cox's apples, they are the same and Cox can't pollinate itself (so therefore two Cox can't pollinate each other).

Fruit trees work on and incompatibility system.
Each tree inherits one incompatibility factor from its mother and one from it father. Any pollen carrying the same incompatibility factors will not be allowed to pollinate its flowers, to prevent in-breeding.

Here's an example:
Cox's has incompatibility factors 5 & 9.
Idaho Red has incompatibility factors 3 & 7.

With completely different incmpatibility factors, Cox's and Idaho Red are fully compatible with each other.

A few decades ago, Cox was crossed with Idaho Red (also known as Idared) to create the modern apple "Fiesta" (also known as Red Pippin).

Fiesta inherited incompatibility factor 3 from Idared and incompatibilty factor 5 from Cox's.

If you try to cross Fiesta with Cox's, all pollen carrying type 5 that tries to pollinate Cox's flowers will be destroyed by the Cox's to prevent in-breeding with its daughter Fiesta. However, the type 3 pollen of Fiesta (inherited from Idared) will be gladly accepted by Cox's.
Of course, Cox's won't accept type 5 and 9 pollen from itself or other Cox trees either.

In fact, nowadays, due to many apple varieties being bred from only just a handful of varieties - mostly Cox's or Golden Delicious - we're approaching a serious issue with inbreeding, incompatibility and not many fresh or recombined genes to give disease resistance.

.


Anyway........in the real world, many varieties of fruit will set a few fruits with their own pollen (a few grains of pollen manage to slip past the incompatibility mechanisms), and there are plenty of other fruit trees around that can act as pollination partners - bees can fly many miles to visit a good source of pollen.
Small young trees aren't very attractive to bees because it's just not worth the bees efforts to fly long distance to visit one small flower cluster. However, as the trees get larger and produce more blossom, they will attract bees (and the pollen they carry) from quite long distances.
Only if certain types of fruit tree are non-existent in your area might you need a pollination partner. But remember not to have two of the same variety and that some varieties (e.g. Bramley) produce sterile pollen that won't pollinate other trees.

[Mell]

I think unless you are very isolated there is likely to be pollination partners.For tub grown trees, I always suggest M9 or MM106, as M27 are an interesting novelty but short lived. If you decide to go for another apple, don't buy miniture but look for a tree on either of these rootstocks , M9 or MM106, & put it in a pot, prune to keep it a nice size, I'd tend to go for M9 as the fruit size & juicyness should be better. Pyramid trees were kept in the ground on Paradise rootstock in the 19th C and root pruned every 3 years or so. The idea being to keep the root system near the surface hence giving bigger fruit.

[Mell]

Oh and on watering consider a drip water system

[FB.]

I agree with Mell that M27 is a bit too weak for my liking.
I'd choose M9 or even M26 for pots. I'd also avoid certain varieties for pots - especially vigorous varieties (triploids are often very vigorous) and tip-bearers make pruning more awkward - they prefer to grow as ever-expanding trees due to their tip-bearing nature.

M9 does indeed improve fruiting and quality and doesn't mind living in quite damp conditions (hence especially good for irrigation). But M9 still needs quite good soil, so is best in good soils or soils that will be regularly fertilised.
The slightly-more-vigorous M26 is probably the smallest rootstock suitable for planting straight into the garden and growing without much attention. But M26 fruits are of lower quality than fruits from M9.