I think it's time to start again

[HeyWayne]

I'm sure I've mentioned it on here before, but my raspberries are in a right state.

I made a novice's error and planted summer and autumn fruiting too close together and didn't support/train them properly.

As a result they are just a mass of foliage and are indistinguishable from each other.

On the basis that I have no idea which is which and more's the point it'd be impossible to tell them apart I'd suggest - do I start again and rip them out, or do I treat them all as the same? Would they eventually become either summer or autumn fruiting if I pruned them all the same way at the same time?

[Alison]

Sort of - autumn fruiting ones will fruit in the summer if not pruned properly but won't do as well as summer ones. Summer ones will however never work as autumn ones. If you don't mind getting a low crop for a year then you could cut them all back to the ground now as you would for autumn ones and the ones which fruit this year are definitely autumn ones and anything else is a summer one. To be honest the pruning isn't too difficult if you just stick with the rule of always pruning any canes which have fruited and if you do it on the summer ones before they die back for the winter then it's easy to spot. Does sound like you need to thin out though.

[bramble]

No, don't rip them out. Have a look and prune out any shoots that look really woody then watch to see which fruit first. When they have finished fruiting then prune them. Don't prune the autumn fruiting variety until the beginning of spring.

[Kristen]

Alison is right. Pruning is the same for both types if you follow the rule of just cutting to the grown any cane that has fruited. You can do this shortly after it finishes fruiting, or during the winter (providing you can still see the cone shaped remains of where the fruit was picked).

I think your biggest problem may be that the Autumn Fruiting will be more rampant and may drown out the summer fruiting over time. I thin my Autumn fruiting in the spring because they come up so thick, you won't be able to do that as your Summer fruiting (for NEXT year) will be coming up at the same time and you won't be able to tell which is which. If they do come up too thick you could just take pot-luck and thin them anyway ... but I reckon, over time, you will have fewer Summer fruiting variety.

[palomino]

I did the same, but planted mine in big tubtrugs. The labels had come off and I had no idea which were which. I've cut them all down to about a foot high today, probably the wrong time.

I'd like to plant them out in the ground - will they do ok on heavy clay? Do they like manure?

[jbm]

Alan Titchmarsh, writes in one of his books that summer fruiting raspberries should have the canes that have borne fruit cut back after the fruit has all been picked and autumn canes can be cut back around mid-February.
As you don't know which are which I would follow Alison's advice and cut them all back now and by summer you will know which are autumn and which are summer.
As far as training goes AT says that autumn ones don't grow as high as the summer so won't need support but if you have both together they may support each other!
And lastly he suggest a mulch in spring with well rotten organic matter and in April sprinkle a general all purpose fertiliser along the each side of the row.
Hope this helps, I was reading it myself as I have a rather rag tag row of raspberries I was wondering what to do with.
Also raspberries canes can bear a good crop of fruit for up to 10 years so don't throw them out yet!!

[jbm]

I did the same, but planted mine in big tubtrugs. The labels had come off and I had no idea which were which. I've cut them all down to about a foot high today, probably the wrong time.

I'd like to plant them out in the ground - will they do ok on heavy clay? Do they like manure?

My raspberries are in clay and I get wonderful big juicy fruit.
I also had some in pots and never got anywhere with them.

[hailtryfan]

I'd like to plant them out in the ground - will they do ok on heavy clay? Do they like manure?

My raspberries are in clay and I get wonderful big juicy fruit.
I also had some in pots and never got anywhere with them.

I've had some problems with my raspberries which I have out down to poor drainage caused by my heavy soil. Raspberries are well known to not like having wet feet. I thought I could get away with improving drainage with compost but it didn't work so well.

Went to my local orchard today for apple scions and got chatting to the manager. He's got the same clay on his site and has recently moved over to growing half his pick your own raspberries in pots. The canes were noticeably bigger and healthier than the ones planted in the heavy soil.

I was going to put in a raised bed for my rasps this year but after seeing the ones in pots doing so well, I'm going to do that instead.

[Kristen]

As you don't know which are which I would follow Alison's advice and cut them all back now and by summer you will know which are autumn and which are summer.

I reckon I'm missing something with this advice, I'd be grateful if you could clarify for me.

It seems to me that if you cut the lot down you won't know which new canes are Summer and which are Autumn when they start shooting.

You won't get any crop this Summer.

At the end of Autumn you will have some canes that have fruited (i.e. the Autumn fruiting ones), and which you can then cut down.

You will also have some canes that have not fruited (the Summer ones) which will fruit next year - and those you should not be cut down.

Strikes me to be more profitable, if you can still see the remnants of the "cone-shaped thingie" (sorry, don't know the correct name!) that was the core for the Raspberries you picked last year, that you cut down any cane that carried fruit last year. That will only leave Summer Fruiting canes for this year, as all the Autumn fruiting will have borne fruit, and you will thus have cut them down and they will form brand new canes this year.

[zazen999]

I'd just leave them Wayne, and when a cane fruits, and finishes fruiting - cut it back. You could tie a bit of string around each one that puts fruit out, but it's easy to see as the new canes in the summer [for the next year's fruit] are green and the old ones are brown.

Then you won't risk cutting back new canes...

[Aberdeenplotter]

I'd just leave them Wayne, and when a cane fruits, and finishes fruiting - cut it back. You could tie a bit of string around each one that puts fruit out, but it's easy to see as the new canes in the summer [for the next year's fruit] are green and the old ones are brown.

Then you won't risk cutting back new canes...

Goodness me, two Mods talking great sense in the same day. As there are summer and autumn fruiting varieties, it will be possible to identify the early fruiters simply because they fruit earlier. As Zaz says, mark these with a piece of string or something and then move them to a separate bed. If you don't, you will have runners intermingling and you will have a right mess that will be really difficult to sort out.

I gave my raspnerries, 5 ft between rows and 18" (I think) between the canes but Read Harry Bakers book on soft fruit. At 1p for a second hand copy from Amazon, go on, you know you can afford it.

[HeyWayne]

I think I need to add something.

When people refer to "canes" I think of a singular "trunk" from which foliage and thus fruit grow. However - what seems to have happened to mine is that they have spread wildly sending out runners all over.

I discovered this when tidying up a bed towards the end of last year. I was pulling up what I thought was a weed and discovered its roots ran back toward the plants and there were similar shoots along its length back toward the main "cane".

It's a real mess.

[zazen999]

Suckers.

You can dig the wayward ones out, pot them up and give them to chums.

[HeyWayne]

Suckers.

You can dig the wayward ones out, pot them up and give them to chums.

Given my recent failing when trying to take lavender cuttings* (having seen Toby show how "easy" it was on GW) I'm likely to just cut and throw.

*followed the instructions and I have pots full of lavender cuttings without a root in sight.

[zazen999]

Me too Wayne - it was a chuffing cold winter. Don't worry about it - it happens!!!