Mini Orchard Collection

[mrbadexample]

I'm considering this Mini Orchard Collection (bottom right of page).

Good? Bad? Pros? Cons?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
MBE

[chris]

lol at

A 'Secret' root system restricts height, so there's a maximum yield of accessible fruit and no need for ladders or climbing.

i.e a dwarfing rootstock? :P

The only issue I'd probably point out, is that growing such mainstream crops such as Braeburn may be difficult if you're planning on not spraying. I think that FB, the general apple king of these forums would suggest a variety local to you, or one that's suited to your microclimate [such as frost resistant blossom, resistance against scab, aphids, etc etc].

The issue with such small trees, is that the anchorage isn't that great, and the roostocks are relatively week in comparison to the more vigourous ones.

I don't know about pollination partners for Braeburn either but if you're urban I guess there'll be plenty of crab apples around?

Victoria plum is relatively trouble free - I know of two people (my dad being one of them) that seriously neglect them and they still churn out a decent crop (though his started to crop every two years in the end... down to the neglect I guess - letting it crop far far too much etc).

Conference pears are my favourite. I love them when they're not quite ripe, still hard - dunno why, other pears taste nicer but something about these and me click. Again, my old man neglected the tree - we built a tree house in it, tied ropes around it damaging bark etc - and it still cropped great.

Not sure what rootstocks the pears and plums will be on, I guess quice a, and st julien a? 6-7ft as quoted may not be strictly true. In good soil, they may grow larger, where as in poorer conditions, they may not grow much at all.

It'd probably help the other experts if you could give more details such as your soil type, and if you know of any other fruit trees that do well around your area?

HTH!

[mrbadexample]

Thanks. Yes, it's a special secret magic rootstock (there's a video explaining it to a certain extent).

If I bought them, it'd be to go in pots on the patio. I'll be honest, I'm not sure they're for me, but I like the idea of growing more fruit - I don't eat enough of it.

I'd like the plums and the cherries, but I very rarely eat apples (I'd prefer cookers TBH) or pears (conference not that great to me). I also think four trees might be a bit much. I did like the idea of the rootstock restricting the growth - my garden's not that big so huge trees would be an issue.

I'd probably be better off considering one or two fruit trees that I'd like better. I've no idea what fruit trees grow well in the area, except that my mate lives round the corner and he has a great cooking-apple tree in his garden, but he's just pruned it almost to the ground.

Can you suggest something that might fit the bill a bit better? I would consider planting it in the lawn if pots are not a good option, but it really can't get too big. It wouldn't even matter too much if it wasn't the most prolific fruiter, as long as I get a bit. I like plums & cherries. What other options are there? I could do with something to supplement the rhubarb & gooseberries.

[chris]

Damsons, Apricots (I've a Dwarf Aprigold - it's about 2' tall including the pot), Nuts (almonds, cobnuts, etc) - I know not fruit, but still it's an option , peaches, nectrines, then you can work down into the different types (yellow plums, etc). Victoria is quite mainstream and pretty much trouble free as I understand it. If planted in the ground, yeild would be more as the roots will have access to more water and more nutrients.. the thing with pots is you have to keep them watered. If the trees become stressed they'll just shed their fruit as far as I understand it (but I don't know a lot about fruit!).

Cherries - I know that 'Stella' is quite popular. If you look out next spring (Feb-March) in Lidl, they do cheap fruit trees - I think I bought 6, as they were that cheap - they're in large pots, but at that price, I'm giving fruit trees a go, before I splash out on some proper, decent ones to see if they work well for me.

I've also recently bought a coronet brand (coronet.ie) dwarf apple tree, on an M7 rootstock (severely dwarfing), it's in a pot, and will only grow to 6' odd. it has a lot of apple fruit buds on it now, so hoping for a good return on it! They're "bred" to fruit in their first year too, rather than 3/4th year.

An issue with cherries is birds - they'll strip your tree overnight if they can do.

Again, if your soil is good, quoted sizes won't really mean things. That said, proper pruning can keep the largest of trees at a certain size. FB has posted a LOT of amazing information about apples and their rootstocks - such as their disease resistance, tree size, shape, etc. Proper apples are FAR far far tastier than the ones you can buy in supermarkets, the difference is shocking.

Oh there's also gages too, and sloes? If one of my cuttings off a sloe bush that was cut down from my plot (grr) roots, I'll happily send it to you for an SAE? They're thorny though, incase you've little ones, pets etc. It won't fruit for a few years though! You can make the obvious sloe gin, and a variety of jams, jellies, and sauces with 'em.

Hmm.. not sure what else - figs perhaps? They like to be pot bound, and it encourages them to fruit - so a good option for pots... Brown turkey is considered hardy for our climate, but there are other ones that with some protection over winter can lead to more delicate/tasty figs. Keep ya regular too *parp*.

Regarding planting in the lawn, the 'weaker' rootstocks won't tolerate competition around them, so you need to keep it clear of weeds and grass... whilst the larger ones are fine with it after a year or so to settle in. They're deeper rooted too, so will anchor better, and be able to draw more water from down below, rather than the shallow rooted counter parts.

I have to admit though, their marketing do make them sound tempting!

[mrbadexample]

From your suggestions I like the sound of apricots, peaches, nectarines, plums, cherries and nuts, possibly an apple (I've not really eaten apples since the tree in my Gran's back garden got cut down, almost 20 years ago. The sweetest, juiciest fruit I have ever had - if there was any way to find out what it was from a stump I'd have an orchard). Peaches and nectarines would be favourite, but do we really have the climate for them?

Maybe one fruit and one nut. This is a current picture of my garden (sorry, it's starting to get dark!):



The right hand side is pretty much accounted for. Do I have sufficient room on the left - how close to the fence can I go? If I'm totally honest, it would probably get neglected if it was in a pot.

[chris]

You can probably get a couple of espalier trained,or fan trained trees down there (what aspect is your garden?).

Apricots, I know do well against a sunny south-facing wall (fan trained) - as the heat helps keep the frost at bay (the frost can kill the blossom == no fruit == my tree). Another down side, is that peach leaf curl affects almods, apricots, nectrines (pretty sure), and peaches.. I'm not aware of any organic method, bar a barrier over the top of the tree.

Squirrels can be a pain with the nuts..

You could probably even train a standard tree into a reasonable shape, in the middle of your lawn.. perhaps something that grows up to 2/3m? info on rootstocks for apples are here: Rootstocks for apple trees - but again check FB's thread about different varieties here: http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ted_42151.html

Similarly, you could get a cherry (birds are an issue there), or plum (maybe st julien a - then a plum of your choice? - ~ 9/10' tree), or go for a pixy rootstock.. info here: Rootstocks for Plum trees - but bear in mind mowing the garden then may mean you need to duck under any branches

I'd probably measure your lawn area, then work out the size/spread of a tree if you went for one in the lawn, else, measure your fence, then check your local garden centre to see what varieties they have that you like that are ready fan/esp trained. You may need to run some decent wire to tie the branches onto mind, the canes they stick in the pots won't be suitable for ever

[zazen999]

I bought 8 fruit trees in Aldi/Lidl [can never remember which is which] earlier this year.

3 cherries, 3 plums and 2 apples.

I have 1 cherry and 1 apple that have flowered already, and I am hoping the others flower next year. My thing was, even if only 2 bore fruit then it would be cheaper than buying at garden centre prices...at £3.99 a pop - I'm quids in! The other 6 are growing healthy leaves and should flower next year.

[VirginVegGrower]

FBB and compost in the bottom of your planting hole, top dressing of potash and a mulch dressing will see your tree take off. Zazen were your's bare root at that price as the time for planting those has now passed? Should be March. It is the cheapest way although I saw B and Q selling off potted fruit trees and they had some excellent varieties.
Be aware fruit trees of any kind grow large, very large and would dwarf that space unless you buy smaller rootstock specimens. Espalier or fan trained would be your best bet up your fencing (IMO)

[zazen999]

FBB and compost in the bottom of your planting hole, top dressing of potash and a mulch dressing will see your tree take off. Zazen were your's bare root at that price as the time for planting those has now passed? Should be March. It is the cheapest way although I saw B and Q selling off potted fruit trees and they had some excellent varieties.
Be aware fruit trees of any kind grow large, very large and would dwarf that space unless you buy smaller rootstock specimens. Espalier or fan trained would be your best bet up your fencing (IMO)

Yes, I think it was Feb/March - carried all 8 through the shop [4 in each hand] and the cries of 'OMG, it's an orchard on legs' were rife!

If i hadn't been going away for 2 days and had a lack of space in the car I'd have got 16

Mine are all in big pots, and are at the sides of our decking next to the canal to try and keep the neighbours off our comfy chairs!

[VirginVegGrower]

Morello is a sour cherry and useless unless you make jam or pies and it will need south facing shelter, conference pear trees grow HUGE, Victoria plum on dwarf rootstock - hmmmm! Braeburn will need another tree nearby to pollinate it. As a rule of thumb if growing fruit standards you will need 25-30 feet between them. If you are prepared to pay that much money I would suggest taking a look at dwarf fruit trees in your local garden centre and they will have better and more flavoursome varieties. These are bog standard. You could grow these beautifully as cordons up your fencing.You may also save yourself some pennies. If I could only grow one fruit it would be a mulberry but they take ages to grow and fruit...sigh!

[zazen999]

*Mine are all for WINE

[VirginVegGrower]

Yes, I think it was Feb/March - carried all 8 through the shop [4 in each hand] and the cries of 'OMG, it's an orchard on legs' were rife!

If i hadn't been going away for 2 days and had a lack of space in the car I'd have got 16

Mine are all in big pots, and are at the sides of our decking next to the canal to try and keep the neighbours off our comfy chairs!

Oooh yes facing that lovely pub! I can see that the dog walkers cum boat trippers would tick you off there. Suggest the filling in of the canal, buy all the fruit trees Aldi/Lidl have and make a real orchard for yourself!
I have an estate car should you need extra carriage locally - man with a van turns mate with an estate! ;-)

[mrbadexample]

Thank you all for the replies. Certainly plenty for me to think about.

If you are prepared to pay that much money I would suggest taking a look at dwarf fruit trees in your local garden centre and they will have better and more flavoursome varieties. These are bog standard. You could grow these beautifully as cordons up your fencing.

This might be my answer, but can you expand on this a bit more for me please? I don't really understand the cordoning process. Does take much time and effort? (Not necessarily against time & effort, but like to know what I'm letting myself in for. ) Is it likely to damage the fence? Which fruit trees would be suitable for this?

Looking at the plum rootstock link, a yellow mirabelle sounds right up my street. Could a bare-root mirabelle be trained into a cordon? Would it matter that anything by the left fence is in shade until the afternoon? The garden is approximately SW facing.

Cheers,
MBE

[VirginVegGrower]

Hi - anything can be trained into a cordon within reason. It is a straight stemmed tree with no sideshooting allowed. So google cordoned fruit trained on the diagonal against a fence. Something will come up. You need dwarf rootstock so for apple look at M27 rootstock. This grows to a height of 5-6 feet only. Alternatively M9 rootstock goes 8-10 feet and if trained diagonally might work at a push. You can also use a cordons a compact column and that's how garden centres sell their dwarf fruit trees.

[VirginVegGrower]

On plums Pixy is your dwarf rootstock which grows up to 15 feet. I wouldn't touch a plum unless you are desperate for one as they grow large and you cannot prune them too hard.

Growing against a fence you would attach it to wires which you would have screwed into your fence posts. Like doing soft fruits.

You could only really fan a plum and I have never seen one espaliered. I think it's because they don't like heavy pruning and grow so big. But this us achievable with apples. Coxs Orange Pippin is hard to beat for taste. But you need mote than one for pollination. We have about twelve different fruit trees spread far and wide - up to 30 feet is needed between trees grown as standards.