Dwarf fruit tree, advice and recommendations

[Dr Pips]

Hi All,

I've finally got round to sorting myself out and I'm now ready to choose a tree. I've changed my mind about a few things, so I'll just clarify what I'm after, then I'll list the apple trees that they have at my local garden centre, and hopefully some of you lovely people will be able to give me recommendations.

The tree is now going about 6 or 7 metres away from where the old tree was that I cut down. This should make it easier to dig the hole in my heavy clay soil away from the roots of the old tree.

I'd like an apple tree, one the gives fruit that keeps a fairly long time. Prefer something a little unusual (for the reasons relating to disease that fb mentioned, but also don't want to grow something I could buy in the supermarket). I only have space for one tree, but there is an apple tree next door, no idea of variety though. It doesn't look as though it has many buds yet.

I would be great if there's an apple that I could use as a cooker and an eater. The tree needs to be fairly small when fully grown, a max of 2.5 metres would be ideal.

So here are the varieties I can find, let me know what you think:

Blenheim Orange on mm106
Bloody ploughman on mm106
Discovery on mm106
Egremont Russet on mm106
Fiesta (red poppin) on mm106
James Grieve on mm106
Jonagold of m26
Laxton's Superb on m26
Lord Lambourne on m26
Limelight on mm106
Pixie on mm106
Red Devil on mm106
Scrumptious on mm106
Sunset on mm106
Worcester Pearmain on mm106


I look forward to your comments.

Dom

[FB.]

Personally, I'd bin the MM106 and go for M26 or MM111, according to the vigour of the variety.
MM106 is far too erratic in its response to different soils; struggling in soils which are too wet or too dry. MM106 is excellent for the commercial growers as they can provide the ideal soil conditions where MM106 can then be arguably the best rootstock.

In dry soil, MM106 may be slightly smaller than M26, while in ideal soil it may be slightly larger than MM111. But until you grow MM106, you won't know how well or badly it responds to your soil.
Apart from partial resistance to wooly aphid, MM106's resistance to underground root diseases is very poor (I've lost count of the number of MM106's I've lost, but I don't use it any more), and MM106 is not really suitable for colder areas as it causes earlier blossoming than (say) M26 and MM106 often has quite late dropping of leaves, risking frost damage to soft shoots.
M26 lacks woolly aphid resistance, but copes much better than MM106 in a variety of soils and climates. It may also slightly boost scab resistance.
MM111 has similar woolly aphid resistance to MM106, and is capable of performing where all other apple rootstocks fail.

A tree size estimator is here: > link <

[Dr Pips]

I understand how important rootstock is, but I want to see the tree before I buy it and there isn't a lot of choice to be honest. They just have the varieties I listed on those rootstock. Shall I just limit my choice to those varieties on a M26 rootstock?

[FB.]

I understand how important rootstock is, but I want to see the tree before I buy it and there isn't a lot of choice to be honest. They just have the varieties I listed on those rootstock. Shall I just limit my choice to those varieties on a M26 rootstock?

It's not just the rootstock which is important, but it's also how the rootstock copes with the type of soil and the climate.
MM106 is very fussy, but if given the ideal conditions it is arguably the best rootstock.

MM106 inherits this fussiness from its parents: Northern Spy and M1.
Both prefer moist soil and they seem to exagerate this in their offspring.

Does your soil offer the good conditions which MM106 needs?


If not, M26 will be much more predictable as it is not as fussy as MM106.

MM106 doesn't care about infertile or shallow soil, but it is really fussy about soil moisture levels. In light sandy soils which dry quickly, MM106 is a dwarf rootstock.
In cool, moisture-retentive soil, MM106 is a medium to high vigour rootstock.

Why so?
MM106, if subjected to dry soil, will shut down growth.
When the soil is rehydrated, MM106 waits for several weeks of continuous moisture before starting to grow again.
Therefore, in soils which easily dry out, MM106 does not have the prolonged dampness to encourage roots to grow.
However, on soils which hold misture well, MM106 roots start growing and keep growing. They can grow as fast as MM111 if the soil remains moist.
But MM106 will not do well on waterlogged soil; it is easily infected by soil-borne fungi which rot the roots and eventually kill the tree.

On the other hand, M26 and especially MM111 do not have such a lag period between the roots sensing moisture and the tree growing new large roots to expand its water and nutrient-gathering coverage.
In fact, experiments have shown that the dwarf M9 actually grows roots faster than MM106 in the first couple of weeks of soil moisture; MM106 only catching up later, once the soil has been moist enough for long enough.

[FB.]

OK, I've thought long and hard about this.

I can't recommend any of the variety/rootstock combinations to have a high likelihood of being the correct mature size, healthy and producing good quantities of clean healthy fruit.
That doesn't mean that you won't get lucky.

I cannot recommend MM106 in light or very heavy soil (which you say you have).

I do not like the options available on M26.
Jonagold is triploid (not self-fertile and not suitable as pollinator). It also has a reputation for being disease-prone. Being descended from US varieties (Jonathan x Golden Delicious) it may not be of such good quality unless grown in very favourable parts of the UK.

Laxton's Superb fruits are easily split from scab, although the tree is considered to do well in clay.

Lord Lambourne, in my experience, may not have enough canker resistance to cope with the higher chance of canker in heavy/wet soil.

I would suggest one of the following two-year-old M26's as alternates for consideration (but don't rush into anything!):

Apple Blenheim Orange Blackmoor Nurseries

Apple Discovery Blackmoor Nurseries

Apple Howgate Wonder Blackmoor Nurseries

Apple Irish Peach Blackmoor Nurseries

Apple Rev.W.Wilks Blackmoor Nurseries

The two-year-olds are being cleared at one-year-old prices. Many of the two-year-olds have a chance to produce a few fruits this year.
In fact, in a 2.5m space, it would be possible to grow a two or three (as a triangle) of M26's as the rootstock is very versatile; suitable for: pots, cordons, small espaliers, small-medium bushes.

I would add, though, that an especially heavy clay soil might need more careful consideration and it might turn out that MM111 would have been more desirable in difficult conditions.
Unfortunately, I can't examine the soil you have, so it's a best guess from many miles away.

If in doubt, plant the new trees on a mound to lift their main roots out of the wet soil.

[FB.]

Another topic reminded me about the Phytophthora fungus, to which MM106 is extremely susceptible.
I dragged up the following information to support my own observations, so that MM106's limitations can be appreciated:

> MM106 prone to phytophthora and dislikes dry soil <

> warning from SouthAfrican nursery to use MM106 only on well-drained soil <

> Phytophthora general information <

> more general information (also mentions strawberries) <


I've lost numerous MM106's from nursery-acquired infection (as the link points out; trees can carry it for years before eventually dying from it).
I also had a few bad batches of M25 from one nursery (who, interestingly, have significantly reduced their M25 offering in recent years - I wonder why ).

[Dr Pips]

Thanks for the time and detail you're putting into helping me. I'll go through your suggestions this evening, but as to my soil, it does seem like heavy clay...but the cherry tree grew very well. Was at least 20' when we cut it down, but saying that, it may have been a vigorous variety on a superb rootstock that was supposed to grow to 50'!!

Dom

[Dr Pips]

Oh this is getting really confusing now! I think Blenheim Orange seems the best in some respects. The fruit keeps well and can be used for eating and cooking, but the fact it needs two other pollinators is a problem. There's only one more tree nearby that I know of. How about this:

Apple Tree 'James Grieve'

Dom

[Dr Pips]

or Apple Charles Ross Blackmoor Nurseries

[FB.]

Charles Ross seems to tick many of your boxes;

self-fertile
reasonable disease resistance
dual purpose
keeps for a couple of months
available on M26
not too vigorous
heavy spur bearing
attractive "exhibition" fruit

[Dr Pips]

and it's my middle name. Almost like it was meant to be! lol

Ok, decision made. Can you recommend a good book for looking after apple trees as well? Planting, feeding, pruning? That kinda thing.

Dom

[FB.]

The RHS appear to have some video guides which can be picked up using their search function:

Apples / RHS Gardening

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=90

I can't say that I agree entirely - especially the specific-named chemicals/fertilisers.