Good nurserys or garden centres in Lincoln

[Dr Pips]

Hi All,

I want to have a look round at some fruit trees at a nursery, but don't know of a good one near where I live.

Any ideas for Lincoln / Lincolnshire? A garden centre with a good selection of fruit trees would be fine.

Thanks,

Dom

[Two_Sheds]

Dom, did you google? There's about 46 in Lincs, according to this - have a trawl through

I found this interesting orchard project, but don't know if it's useful to you

Here's a Lincolnshire plum

and here are some Lincs apple varieties

Local is good, you know they're going to suit your soil and you're preserving a little bit of heritage

[FB.]

Local is good, you know they're going to suit your soil and you're preserving a little bit of heritage

One thing that I find very disappointing is that nurseries fail to tell you the climate and soil preferences for apple varieties - yet when you buy other plants, there is a detailed description of requirements.
It has long been known that certain varieties of fruit will not grow well in certain areas, but the locals of that area bred certain varieties which were better suited than others.
For example: some apples prefer deep rich loam over clay (e.g. Annie Elizabeth), while others prefer shallow loam over sand/gravel (e.g. Golden Harvey). Yet others prefer shallow alkaline loam over chalk (e.g. Barnack Orange). Some have been selected for tolerance of very harsh winters (e.g. Anmtonovka), while others have been selected for their tolerance of long hot drought summers (e.g. D'Arcy Spice). Some are excellent in dry climates but not so happy in wet (e.g. Worcester Pearmain), while others thrive in a wet climate but not dry (e.g. Hoary Morning). Some varieties are notably tolerant of taking a battering from strong winds and salty sea air (e.g. D'Arcy Spice).
In fact, sometimes these unusual varieties won't grow well anywhere else - each having been carefully selected by our ancestors to suit their climate.
Bring a Hoary Morning into my climate and it will die from powdery mildew within two seasons. Bring Annie Elizabeth into my soil and she drops from T3 vigour (above average growing) to T1 vigour (below average growing).

In that respect, local varieties can be very good - so long as the soil is the same type in all your nearby localities, which isn't always the case and should be checked.
One drawback is that certain varieties have been grown so much in their local area that their disease resistance has been broken by the local disease population (which has evolved to attack it). If a variety is widely grown in a particular area (such as James Grieve in Scotland) you can expect to find that the tree will quickly catch diseases from the vast number of trees of the same variety that are already planted in the general area.

[chris]

Does all that come out of your head, FB?

[FB.]

Does all that come out of your head, FB?

That lot came off the tip of my tongue, but sometimes I will pull out one of my books (including old books and nursery catalogues, some of 1800's and 1900's vintage, which often had good information that is no longer provided).

[FB.]

It may interest Chris and Dr.Pips to know what I'm growing at present; this sometimes changes if I remove, replace or re-graft a variety. I also keep a stock of several spare baby trees and newly-grafted trees.

Anyway, here's what I'm growing, in approximate order of planting position (note the generally alternating rootstocks for disease-limitation purposes):

Belle de Boskoop, MM111
Laxton's Epicure, M25
Graft from ancient, vigorous, disease-free, un-named variety, MM111
Beauty of Bath, M25
First & Last, MM111
Crawley Beauty, M25
Tydeman's Late Orange, MM111
Jupiter, M25
Hambledon Deux Ans, MM111
Spartan, M25
Winter Majetin, MM111
Court Pendu Plat, M25
Coeur de Boeuf, MM111
Edward VII, M25
Ard Cairn Russet, MM111
Worcester Pearmain, M25
Egremont Russet, MM111
Alfriston, M116 (experimental rootstock)
Norfolk Beefing, M116 (experimental rootstock)
Vacant space, but will be planted with MM111-rooted graft from ancient un-named tree
D'Arcy Spice, M25
Vacant space, but will be planted with MM111-rooted tree (possibly Discovery, Golden Harvey, Bountiful or Gascoyne's Scarlet)

The trees are mostly half-standards, spaced 3-4 metres apart due to extremely poor soil which slows their growth rate considerably (remember the other day that I mentioned someone nearby with an old but well-maintained seedling-rootstock Bramley which is only about 4 metres wide and 3 metres high?)

[Two_Sheds]

That lot came off the tip of my tongue

Incredible

You're a sage you are, don't you ever go retiring on us

[chris]

Whoa. Get through many apple pies? Remind me to pop over for a munch on a couple next time I'm in cam !

[FB.]

Whoa. Get through many apple pies? Remind me to pop over for a munch on a couple next time I'm in cam !

Year-round apple supply - eaters, cookers and ciders. I like cider (hic!). Golden Harvey is a possible candidate for one of my empty positions because it has very high sugar content which ferments to make apple brandy; very high alcohol content (hic!).

The season starts in July with Beauty of Bath and Discovery, and continues right through until fresh apples come again; Hambledon Deux Ans, D'Arcy Spice, Norfolk Beefing and other ancient varieties (which pre-date commercial refrigeration) have exceptional long-keeping qualities in very simple conditions. They will often keep until the next season's apples are almost ripe.
I have a real liking for ultra-long-keeping varieties from ancient times and my "collection" is heavily biased towards such long-keepers so that I can store them for several months.
A few months ago, I posted the following picture of Howgate Wonder apples which had spent 5-6 months in an open-topped cardboard box in my garage (basically I just kept them cool, dry and away from strong light):

[digon]

Alfriston, M116 (experimental rootstock)
Norfolk Beefing, M116 (experimental rootstock)
Vacant space, but will be planted with MM111-rooted graft from ancient un-named tree
D'Arcy Spice, M25
Vacant space, but will be planted with MM111-rooted tree (possibly Discovery, Golden Harvey, Bountiful or Gascoyne's Scarlet)

FB,
where did you get the m116 rootstocks from? I scoured the net last winter looking for one, to no avail.
I was also looking for Golden Harvey/ brandy apple without much luck.

Dave.

[FB.]

Digon

I am sworn to secrecy about the M116's because they are not generally available to anyone other than cider growers and commercial orchards. It's not what you know, but who you know, if you know what I mean.

I have to say that I'm very impressed with M116 so far. It is far more tolerant of erratic watering and disease than the MM106. In fact, MM106 is very slow growing and sickly in poor soil, whereas M116 seems fairly happy in comparison, as, of course, is MM111.

In good soil, I would expect the following sizes:
M116: 3-3.5m
MM106: 3.5-4m
MM111: 4-4.5m

In poor soil (dry,infertile), MM106 struggles, with size estimate as follows:
M116: 2-2.5m
MM106: 1.5-2m
MM111: 2.5-3m

Additionally, MM106 is very prone to root rots in heavy soil, whereas M116 and MM111 have some resistance.

I would never go back to MM106 as long as M116 or MM111 are available. Frankly, I think that MM106 should be completely abandoned due to erratic size-to-soil response and poor disease resistance.
However, unlike consumers in the US who have high expectations, most UK consumers "make do" with second-rate junk and seem stuck in the dark ages in comparison. I often import items from the US (not trees though) because they offer just what consumers need at fair prices.
For that reason, I was thinking about offering fruit trees of exceptional quality with a lifetime guarantee - but the British public probably wouldn't know a good fruit tree from a bad one even if presented with a dead stick compared to a leafy tree.

If you would like some Golden Harvey, drop me a message in the autumn and I'll see whether I have any worthwhile shoots which I can post to you for grafting. However, bear in mind that my MM111 trees are prone to producing very slender branches which aren't always thick enough for ideal grafting.

[Chef_uk]

amazing info top stuff.

[FB.]

Here's a picture of a three-year-old MM111 (left) and a same-age M116 (right). Both are grafted with what are considered to be vigorous T3 varieties. Both being trained as half-standards.
(Note some pots with ungrafted rootstocks on the right of the picture, awaiting bud-grafting).
The picture was mainly focused on the roots, so the perspective of the camera and the branch angles makes the two trees "above ground" look like very different sizes when they're not actually much different.

Note the considerable size of the M116 root system and its large taproots.
Those M116 roots also don't seem to have the brittle tendencies of M27, M9 or M26.