Apples

[Garden_Chris]

Hi guys,

An Apple tree - James Grieve's -in my Granddad's garden has become the latest gardening fascination to overcome me, and I've got a few questions about it.

It's of immense sentimental value to me, as both myself when I was a child back in the early 90s, and my dad back in the late 60s, climbed upon it and spent a large portion of our childhoods incorporating many games and fantastic summers of perfect apples surrounding it.

So, enough sentiments, I don't want to bore you, but essentially - I'm wanting to continue this tree beyond it's current location. I know it would be easier to purchase a new tree, and my granddad also advised me to do so as it would be an easier route, but I'm adamant I keep this tree going.

My question then, is simply: how do I do this?

• Do I take the seeds from the apples which are currently on the tree and grow them as I would any other seed?
• I've heard of something called "Grafting", but I've no idea how to do this - is this something I should look into?
• Do I take a 30cm branch and pot it in some compost using root toner, or trainer and hope it grows this way?
• Should I contact my garden centre and ask them to do it for me - for a fee?

I'm a little unsure as to how I should proceed, thankfully I'm under no rushed circumstances, but I would like to act sooner rather than later

Thanks for any/all help,

GC

[zazen999]

Have you googled Apple Tree Grafting? If not, make a cuppa and go do it....

[chris]

If you move it, take a few scions for grafting, incase the shock of the move kills the tree.

Growing it from an apple pip may not work out, as it probably won't be 'true to type' - as in will have been pollinated by other pollen when the bees etc were working around their routes.

You may find people local to you, who will graft for you - or as you have the time, you could try it out yourself. If you look at a thread posted by me titled 'FAO: FB.' you'll see that our resident apple expert, FB. has recommended that there's still a little time left for bud grafting - he posted a link, but googling around, I believe it can be called a shield graft, or t-graft too (wikipedia, for example).

Do you have any other apple trees that you can graft to?

Someone more knowledgable will be able to fill in the gaps

[Garden_Chris]

Have you googled Apple Tree Grafting? If not, make a cuppa and go do it....

Yes, I've googled it and read around the subject but it's a little Dr. Frankenstein, and honestly, I think I'd make an utter mess if I tried to do it myself, especially since I don't understand it. I was hoping for someone who had experience doing such things to explain it in laymens terms so this particular simpleton could grasp it

[zazen999]

Yes, I've googled it and read around the subject but it's a little Dr. Frankenstein, and honestly, I think I'd make an utter mess if I tried to do it myself, especially since I don't understand it. I was hoping for someone who had experience doing such things to explain it in laymens terms so this particular simpleton could grasp it

Aah, you said I've heard of something called "Grafting", but I've no idea how to do this - is this something I should look into? Which bit don't you understand?

[Garden_Chris]

Well, from what I can understand you have to get a tree, chop off the top of it, and place the tip of the tree you want on top of it. But it seems strange, as it would look like this:


___l____ <---- stick taken from old tree
l-------l
l-TREE--l
l-------l
/////\\\\ <--- Roots


It just seems a little.. weird, and I can't imagine that working, it seems overly disproportionate - how would the graft taken from the 'Mother' tree be the same size as the trunk from the new tree?

@ChrisMarks I'll give Wikipedia a read over, thanks for the advice - shield graft, or t-graft.

[zazen999]

Grafting and Budding Fruit Trees

[zazen999]

&#x202a;Grafting Apple Trees&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

[Garden_Chris]

Thanks for that video, that's really illustrative!

Out of interest, is there anywhere you can purchase a "stock" apple tree, simply for it's trunk and root system and graft your own scion's onto it? Sadly, that's the part I'm lacking - the apple tree on which to graft.

[FB.]

Hi guys,

An Apple tree - James Grieve's -in my Granddad's garden has become the latest gardening fascination to overcome me, and I've got a few questions about it.

It's of immense sentimental value to me, as both myself when I was a child back in the early 90s, and my dad back in the late 60s, climbed upon it and spent a large portion of our childhoods incorporating many games and fantastic summers of perfect apples surrounding it.

So, enough sentiments, I don't want to bore you, but essentially - I'm wanting to continue this tree beyond it's current location. I know it would be easier to purchase a new tree, and my granddad also advised me to do so as it would be an easier route, but I'm adamant I keep this tree going.

My question then, is simply: how do I do this?

• Do I take the seeds from the apples which are currently on the tree and grow them as I would any other seed?
• I've heard of something called "Grafting", but I've no idea how to do this - is this something I should look into?
• Do I take a 30cm branch and pot it in some compost using root toner, or trainer and hope it grows this way?
• Should I contact my garden centre and ask them to do it for me - for a fee?

I'm a little unsure as to how I should proceed, thankfully I'm under no rushed circumstances, but I would like to act sooner rather than later

Thanks for any/all help,

GC

Seeds from a James Grieve may have been pollinated by a different variety and therefore have some similarities to its other parent, which could be a crab apple.
Seedlings will therefore usually be somewhat different to their parent and often not as good. In other words; you won't breed true from seed.


Apples do not root very well from cuttings. Most will rot or dry out before they root. A few varieties will root from cuttings, but I am not aware that James Grieve is one of them.
Varieties which root readily tend to be those which produce "burr knots" (small clusters of lumps of primitive roots on branches).

Apples are usually grafted. To do this you will need to acquire some rootstock.

Choice of rootstock will be based on how big you want the tree to get and certain rootstocks do not like certain climates or soil types - such as the common MM106 which I find is very fussy and rather disease-prone or stunted in less-than-ideal soils.

M26 would be suitable for a bush-tree of about 8ft in reasonable soil, while MM111 would be suitable for a half-standard of about 13ft in reasonable soil.
MM111 is probably the hardiest, most soil-tolerant and most disease resistant of all the readily-available apple rootstocks; it is quick to establish and it takes a lot to kill an established MM111 tree.

A big problem that I've found with growing your own rootstock is that most are fairly susceptible to powdery mildew, which, if not grafted within a year or two, means that the rootstock's own leaves gradually die off.
Ungrafted M25, M9 and M27 have about average mildew resistance.
Ungrafted MM111 and M26 are somewhat susceptible to mildew.
Ungrafted MM106 are very susceptible to mildew; most of my stock of unsprayed MM106 is almost dead now. Not that I care much anyway because MM106 (whether grafter or not) is less disease resistant and less predictable in its growth performance than other rootstocks.


I posted a link to useful grafting instructions somewhere in the middle of the following thread of Chris's:
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...-fb_60182.html


The following picture shows a graft (several-year-old Ellison's Orange on MM106). The rootstock also happens to have some "burr knots" between ground level and the graft (so you can see what burr knots might look like on the branches of varieties which will produce them):

.

[Garden_Chris]

Thanks for the response FB!
I think M26 sounds pretty decent, I wouldn't want the tree to eclipse 8ft in height. The only issue, as you've stated, is powdery milldew. Another issue, would the tree be able to remain in a container for a period of 1 -2 years, or is this an impossibility due to restrictive root growth?

Cheers.

[Two_Sheds]

would the tree be able to remain in a container for a period of 1 -2 years

It's very normal to buy container grown fruit trees: Bare-root or Container-grown fruit trees?

[FB.]

Thanks for the response FB!
I think M26 sounds pretty decent, I wouldn't want the tree to eclipse 8ft in height. The only issue, as you've stated, is powdery milldew. Another issue, would the tree be able to remain in a container for a period of 1 -2 years, or is this an impossibility due to restrictive root growth?

Cheers.

M26 could remain in a container all its life - the restricted roots will slow growth until it is planted-out.
When a long-term container-grown plant is planted-out, its roots will need to be untangled or they will not establish properly. Ideally planting-out is best done in autumn, which is when most plants send all the nutrients from their leaves down to the roots and enlarge the root system for the next season.

The mildew problem is only where the rootstock remains ungrafted for a couple of seasons and when it is not sprayed to protect from mildew. Once it is grafted, the rootstock's mildew-prone leaves will no longer be present - being replaced by James Grieve leaves which have good resistance to mildew.

If you buy a batch of M26 rootstock during the dormant season and graft them before growth begins, there will be no issue with mildew. I suggest a small batch because not all grafts are successful.
Unfortunately, the baby rootstocks bought bare-root during the winter often need growing-on for a season or two to get them up to a large enough size to graft properly.
Having to grow-on for a year or two is when mildew can be a problem.

Alternatively: buy a cheap apple tree from LIDL, ALDI or similar and bud-graft the James Grieve onto it next summer - then allow the James Grieve bit to become dominant.

[BUFFS]

&#x202a;Grafting Apple Trees&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

thanks for that video,now i know where i went wrong in the spring ...
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