dwarf plum trees?

[salome2001]

just wondering if these existed on dwarfing rootstock. I love plums, but the hard/ rotten inedible purple superballs available to buy are driving me nuts... hence I'd like to grow my own. For eating, not cooking. We have two apple trees in the garden already, so not a lot of room for another tree..

[Jeanied]

From my experience the plum trees on our lottie site aren't very tall at all. How dwarf do you need them?

[northepaul]

Yes you can get plums on pixie rootstock if you want dwarf trees....if you look at any reputable seller you should be able to find more information regarding height at maturety etc.

[FB.]

Much depends on your soil and rainfall.
Plums like moisture-retentive but not waterlogged soil. They hate light, sandy soils in low-rainfall areas (like mine). Plums used to be extensively grown in NorthWest England because of the plentiful water supply.
I eventually gave up on plums on the "medium vigour" St.Julien A because I could only get them up to 4-5ft on my soil and the plums were quite prone to splitting (and then rotting) when the soil eventually got some rain again. Pixy rootstock would have been even weaker - probably would have died on my soil.
If I ever grew plums again and wanted a 10-12ft tree, I'd need them grafted onto seedling, Myrobalan or Brompton.

In other words; if you don't have ideal soil and you don't feed them too much nitrogen, they will be much smaller than "the books" say. Additional weekly watering helps avoid fruit splitting in dry weather, but not too much water or the trees will grow too fast.

Note that some plum varieties make larger trees than others, even when on the same rootstock.

[FB.]

There's a tree size estimator here:

> Link <

Variety, rootstock, soil quality and type/timing of pruning can make qute a difference to final size.

[Two_Sheds]

They hate light, sandy soils in low-rainfall areas (like mine).

Ah. That's what I have

I eventually gave up on plums on the "medium vigour" St.Julien A because I could only get them up to 4-5ft

I have a President (I think) on St Julien rootstock. I think it's 3 years old, is now 5ft tall (perfect, cos I am too) and this year it gave me ... 2 plums ! They were lovely though

I shall take note and water it more often, and get some well-rotted compost around it too

[Two_Sheds]

RustyLady has a very good Victoria in her garden, it's only about 5ft tall as well, but the weight of the fruit over the years has bent the branches down towards the ground (so they're drooping like a weeping willow). Ideal for shorties to pick

[finefencer]

President

Ah. That's what I have


I have a President (I think) on St Julien rootstock. I think it's 3 years old, is now 5ft tall (perfect, cos I am too) and this year it gave me ... 2 plums ! They were lovely though

I shall take note and water it more often, and get some well-rotted compost around it too

I have the president too, and I only had one plum.
If you bought it from Lidl's it says that it is self-furtile.....not so...Google it and see.
No matter how much food and water you give it, it won't poduce any more fruit until you get another plum tree to cross polinate it.

If you havent got the space try grafting another veriaty onto it that flowers at the same time.....this should give you the fruit that you are looking for.

[FB.]

The term "self-fertile" is not as straightforward as it sounds.

Even varieties which are self-fertile produce better quality fruit if pollinated by a different variety.

However, almost all fruit trees have some degree of self-fertility - even triploids planted without a pollinator can produce a small number of fruit.
The problem is that the amount of self-fertility of most fruit trees is usually too low to give a full crop load on a regular basis.
Planting two of the same type (e.g. two Golden Delicious) will not improve pollination because the two trees are clones and think that the other trees pollen is their own. Fruit trees have a pollen-self-recognition system which prevents most of their own pollen from fertilising their flowers - hence low fruit set.
Varieties which claim to be self-fertile tend to produce vast amounts of pollen (and often make good pollinators for other trees). The vast amounts of pollen produced often overloads the ability of the flower to block the self-pollination process.
Other self-fertile varieties simply don't like to let go of their fruit, so even fruits with poor pollination often make it to a reasonable size.

Good pollination from a different variety of the same type of tree will usually result in:
1. More pips.
2. Bigger fruit.
3. Better tasting fruit.
4. More even-shaped fruit.
5. Less chance of fruit being dropped shortly before it is properly ripe.
6. Fruit less prone to storage breakdown (e.g. less bitter pit in apples).

Although I don't know the specifics about pollinators for plums, related varieties are not likely to be ideal pollinators due to often recognising confusing pollen from relatives as their own - and destroying it.
Although cherries have significant problems with incompatibilty groups (where certain varieties require a specific variety to pollinate them), there are also known to be incompatibility groups in apples and pears - and probably in other fruits too.

I also believe that there are many more "triploid" varieties of fruit tree than we're actually aware of - and that there are surprisingly few varieties around which actually produce a good quantity of viable pollen. Many of the old varieties described as "erratic cropping" are probably triploid or have some other chromosome abnormality.

[sadowska]

self pollination

the last two posts put together are so interesting. With limited space then, a dwarf rootstock with two varieties grafted onto it would be the best solution? Has anyone seen this available commercially for the benefit of us who would probably kill both trees and the rootstock if we attempted grafting?!

This will probably sound especially clueless, but would double grafting and cross pollination work with different types and hybrids eg a pluot and a peachcot put together? That would probably be my dream fruit tree!

[FB.]

In my experience, dwarf rootstocks are more like demanding pets, rather than servants.
I think of dwarf roots as needing to be kept on constant "life support". Medium vigour roots (or strong roots) are much better because the tree is much more resilient - coping much better with drought/lack of water, low-fertility soils, damage and disease.
By growing a strong rootstock in a pot, the roots being restricted will have a somewhat dwarfing effect in the same was as figs are grow in "fig pits" to prevent growth of their aggressive roots, with the result that the tree crops heavily.

If selecting "family" trees with more than one variety grafted, consider carefully the combinations because certain varieties will grow faster than others, while some varieties grow upwards, some are spreading/weeping, possibly requiring different pruning techniques for each part of the tree to ensure a balanced and nice shape.
Although I have never seen it happen, I can envisage that a "family" tree might suffer problems with nutrient deficiency/bitter pit. A light-cropping or over-vigorous tree (or, perhaps *half* of a tree) may well impact on the fruit quality of the otehr half due to shoots having a higher priority for nutrients than fruits - and therefore the fruits are of poor quality.

Personally, I would always recommend having two trees - even if they have to be grown as fans, cordons or espaliers.

[chris]

RustyLady has a very good Victoria in her garden, it's only about 5ft tall as well, but the weight of the fruit over the years has bent the branches down towards the ground (so they're drooping like a weeping willow). Ideal for shorties to pick

Same as my neighbour. Except this year, the crop was so abundant she lost probably half her branches due to the weight. I hope it doesn't jump to biennial bearing now for her!