Update Apple trees are here. FB help please

[furball]

My apple trees are here, irish peach and winter gem. Very fast delivery and very tall trees. FB you mentioned cutting back stragly branches. The booklet says to prune back each branch but am i right thinking they fruit on the ends of the branches. Should i cut any branches off that look weak back to the trunk. Sorry to be so naive. Thankyou in advance.

[FB.]

Winter Gem is mostly a spur-bearer. Irish Peach is a tip and spur bearer.

A picture would be helpful, since every tree's pruning needs are best assessed on an individual basis.

Failure to guide a young tree will result in the need for more drastic pruning later, from which the tree may never be restored to an attractive shape. That is where most people go wrong: they plant a tree and only deal with pruning after several years.

In many cases, a fruit tree should branch itself in a fairly normal way without pruning, but it takes longer than for a tree which is pruned and also the pruning determines where *you* want the branches to form and not where the tree randomly decides to grow them.

[FB.]

I meant to add:

A clever way to manage a tip-bearer is to prune new growth quite hard (about half) every year in the early years, so as to produce masses of bushy side branches which will later bear fruit at their tips when the hard pruning is stopped (once the tree is mature).

[furball]

Thankyou, i will take a picture hopefully this afternoon. I have to go buy a new spade now as OH broke mine helping to dig a shrub out. Back soon.

[FB.]

I just knocked-together a picture of "level-two" pruning for fruit trees:

[furball]

Wow that's great. Thankyou. Very clear to understand. "just knocked together" would have taken me hours. Thankyou again.

[FB.]

The normal procedure for a young tree is to prune new shoots back by half in late winter.

But the above pictures show a tree which I want to grow as a half-standard, rather than a bush.

Notice that, unlike a bush, I am retaining the leader to "build the stem" until I get branches where I want them, after which the leader will be removed. A similar idea is used for espaliers or fans.

This tree - like many apples if on strong roots and left to themselves - naturally wanted to form branches all the way to the ground. It also had formed a few fruit spurs along the main stem. Two-year-old wood is where spurs form so it was no surprise.

A strong rootstock (in this case M25) helps promote branching earlier in life (and rapid establishment) because it is very efficient at gathering nutrients and water and sends so many nutrients up in the sap that the existing branches just can't grow fast enough, so other buds will break out and form additional shoots to soak up all that sap coming from the roots.

[furball]

Thankyou. As mine are on M26 rootstock would i be able to grow mine as half standard. When you have established the branches you want do you cut the leader all the way back to the trunk or just prune back. Can a tree with an uptight habit be grown as a half standard or would it look silly. All very interesting, sorry for all the questions.

[FB.]

Although some nurseries offer M26 half-standards, it requires perfect growing conditions for M26 to get that large.

M26 is ideal for garden-sized bush-trees of several feet in size, but can get somewhat larger after many years, if left to do its own thing. It can also be used for pots, cordons, stepovers or bushes.

Although M26 can make a half-standard with a vigorous variety such as Bramley, M26's roots are slightly brittle and will snap or gradually lean over if the tree has a lot of weight high up in the air and rocks in the wind. The smallest rootstock suitable for half-standard is MM106 if it is in good, deep, fertile soil. Normally MM111 is a half-standard rootstock, while M25 is a standard rootstock in average soil conditions.

To some extent, roostock suitability for certain growth forms also depends on the vigour of the variety grafted onto them.
An average variety might make a medium-sized bush on M26, but some varieties are very slow-growing, or make small/compact trees. In these cases, they would need MM106 or even MM111 to keep up with average varieties on M26.


As you note: certain varieties vary in their growt habit. But that doesn't prevent you changing their shape. After all: if we can grow them as espaliers, cordons or stepovers, then there's no reason why an upright variety can't be persuaded to spread, or a spreading variety can't be kept fairly upright. It's all in the pruning technique.

Anyway.......

I thought that your plan was originally to have one tree up to about 12ft, but that was subsequently changed to two bushes in order to lengthen the season of cropping and prevent a glut of apples in mid-summer?

Your two M26's should not be allowed to have a trunk which is longer than about 3ft in order to reduce the chance of falling over. They should also be kept to no more than about 8ft height and spread to prevent too much topweight. M26's are very manageable and are unlikely to grow so fast that you can't control them. They also cope better with a wider variety of soils and climates than most other rootstocks of similar vigour.

[FB.]

But if I have misled you and you are unhappy with what to expect from M26 (i.e a bush, with a 3ft trunk and about 8ft tall), I am sorry.

If you actually wanted something much larger, with the strength of big roots to anchor a tall canopy, then I have recently grafted a MM111 Irish Peach and MM111 Winter Gem (and some other varieties, including a very-rare Alfriston, First&Last, Hambledon Deux Ans and others), which, if the grafts "take", you can have later in the year.

But be warned that MM111 can grow large and fast and is not particularly keen to fruit until it has reached a considerble size. A MM111 one-year-whip's roots can easily spread several feet in each direction in the first year after planting and it can easily grow 3ft or more per year in good soil when it is young. M26 is likely to be about half that growth rate in good soil and therefore much more manageable. M26 will also want to fruit at a younger age than MM111.

But you should find M26 to be one of the best all-round rootstocks for garden use in average to good soil - and you suggested that you had good, deep soil.

One thing I would recommend with M26 is to plant with the graft no more than an inch out of the ground, since the rootstock of M26 tends to get a bit wider than the trunk. By planting quite close to the ground, the difference in thickness of rootstock and trunk is not noticeable.

[FB.]

Here is a picture of the M26 rootstock being thicker than the trunk (two vertical cordons/minarettes in this picture):

[FB.]

Sorry to keep posting, but here are my approximate definitions of various tree forms:

Bush: trunk about 2-3ft.
Height/spread about 6-8ft.
Most fruit can be picked from the ground or with a short stepladder.
Best rootstock for perfect soil: M9.
Best rootstock for average soil: M26.
Best rootstock for poor/shallow/infertile/dry soil: MM111.

Large bush: trunk about 3-4ft
Height/spread about 8-9ft
Most fruit can be picked from the ground or with a short stepladder.
Best rootstock for perfect soil: M26.
Best rootstock for average soil: MM106.
Best rootstock for poor/shallow/infertile/dry soil: MM111.

Half-standard: trunk 4-5ft.
Height/spread about 8-12ft.
Will need steps for picking an pruning - and some long-handled loppers.
Best rootstock for perfect soil: MM106.
Best rootstock for average soil: MM111.
Best rootstock for poor/shallow/infertile soil: M25.

Standard: trunk 5-7ft
Height/spread: 10ft or more.
Will need steps for picking an pruning - and some long-handled loppers.
Best rootstock for perfect soil: MM111.
Best rootstock for average soil: M25.
Best rootstock for poor/shallow/infertile/dry soil: may not reach full standard size in poor soil, unless grafted with a very vigorous variety such as Bramley, Blenheim Orange etc.

A tree size estimator can be found > here Fruit tree mature height calculator <
and further down the page is a list of varieties broken down into different vigour classes.

[furball]

You haven't mislead me at all. I am very happy with the M26 rootstock. As a total novice i hadn't heard of the half standard so i googled the pics and it looked a nice shape. I am very happy to take all the advice to get a good looking tree that won't be top heavy. I still happy with 8ft. Sorry to have confused the issue, i am the perfect example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing or in my case no knowledge being worse. Apologies again for me getting muddled and many thanks for your reply especially the planting tip. I will post pics tomorrow. Thankyou

[FB.]

Here's a picture of a baby MM111 raised by me. The bit above ground is about 5ft - but just look at how vigorous those roots are, going 3ft or more in all directions in one season and so many roots it's like a mop; no water or nutrients escapes a determined MM111.

[Tadpole123]

That's impressive. The roots on that little m27 I've got are 1/4 of that!