Pruning dwarf fruit trees

[Jason Cartwright]

Hi,

I've built a trough for about 3/4 dwarf fruit trees.
When they get to a certain height can i keep them there by pruning them or do they stop growing at some point?

I'm going to get a M27 apple tree. What's the equivalent size for a cherry, a plum and/or pear?

Thanks

J

[Kleftiwallah]

If you 'gurgle' dwarfing rootstock, you will find the information that will help. You can call "Blackmoor Fruit Nursery, they will be able to give advice and provide proven trees. Cheers, Tony.

[Bigmallly]

Or you can wait for FB, he'll blow your mind..............

[FB.]

M27 rootstock is so dwarf that there is no comparable pear, plum or cherry rootstock that small.
Personally, I prefer apple M26 (or M9) as they'll tolerate a bit more abuse and neglect than M27, which requires perfect soil and management if it is to give its best. M9 and M26 will cope much better with a missed watering, or regrowing a broken or diseased branch.

The pear equivalent of M26 is Quince C. The plum equivalent is Pixy. The cherry equivalent is Gisela. Only apple has such a dwarf as M27.

A guide to rootstocks is here:
> Link <


If you think they're too vigorous, then reduce the feeding. Alternatively, give them a mixture of compost and garden soil instead of pure compost - the garden soil being much less nutritious, will slow growth.

Basically, in poorer soil, even vigorous rootstocks can be "dwarfed". I grow the mighty M25 "full-size heavy standard" apple rootstocks at 3-4 metre spacing due to less fertile soil. Normally they'd be grown at twice that spacing but there's no chance of them ever getting that big in poor soil.
Similarly: figs are extremely vigorous, but people grow them in a slab-lined pit to contain the roots, and the soil in the pit is mixed with builders rubble to make it poor. The result is that the poor soil slows growth and increases fruitfulness, but the strong roots are able to handle the poor soil. Round here, the soil is so poor that figs can be left to let their roots roam freely, without the need for slab-lined pits of rubble.

So you can see that by adjusting the fertility of the soil in the pot, it is easy to control vigour.



Sometimes dwarfs will get to a certain size and then stop - often they form so many fruit spurs in their second through fourth years that the spurs take all their energy and none is left for growth.
Some dwarfs will keep growing; certain varieties (i.e. the bit grafted onto the dwarf roots) seem to always want to keep growing, getting ever-bigger. These are mostly tip-bearers or triploids.
In fact, a little bit of new growth each year is good, otherwise the wood gets old, tired, less productive and potentially diseased. The best fruit spurs on a tree are no more than about four years old and optimum tree maganement prunes a little bit of the older wood each winter to encourage a few young fresh shoots to take its place.

The trick with dwarf trees, to get the very best out of them, is to prune quite hard and prevent fruiting in the first couple of years. Then let them do their own thing. Once a dwarf starts fruiting, it can be difficult to persuade it to grow again.
Once mature, if they put on too much growth, reduce fertilisation and/or prune in summer.

Summer pruning to stop growth. Winter pruning to encourage growth. High-nitrogen fertiliser will also encourage growth.

Strong growth and fruiting combined on one tree usually result in poor quality fruit.

[FB.]

Notice in the rootstock guide I linked above, that the well-respected Keepers Nursery only list container for the following rootstocks:

M26
MM106
Quince A

Cherries and plums are trickier to manage in containers which is probably why they don't recommend any cherry or plum rootstock for that purpose (probably the risk of disease entering pruning cuts, to which plums and cherries are rather prone, so are best unpruned, which doesn't work well if it needs pruning to control size).

Note that the size guide given is for trees in the soil condition listed.
i.e. M27

Good soil conditions.
Ground should be clear of weeds and grass.
Permanent staking required.
Water in dry conditions.
Mature height 4-6ft (1.2-1.8m)

So if all of the above are met, M27 should reach 4-6ft.
If the soil is less than good, or if there is weeds/grass to compete with, or inadequate soil moisture then it will be much smaller.

Generally speaking, if it is suitable for cordons (which are a restricted growth form) then it should be able to be restricted in a pot by good pruning.
No fruit tree is likely to excel unless it receives some pruning, but pruning need not be complicated.
If in doubt about pruning, ask - and show a picture so that people can make a suggestion.

[Jason Cartwright]

That's brilliant, Thanks.

The trough is 5ft(L)x1.5ft(W)x1ft(H) i was looking to put about 3/4 of the trees in but didn't really want them to grow any higher than about 6ft.
They'll be sharing the trough with a strawberry plant, a blueberry plant and poss a framberry plant.

Thanks

[Bigmallly]

Watch the blueberry Jason as they like Ericaceous compost.

[FB.]

Watch the blueberry Jason as they like Ericaceous compost.

Yes, blueberries need acid soil. Best grown on their own.
It is thought that acid soil increases the risk of canker disease in apples or pears (probably a nutrient becoming unavailable by the unusual pH in the same way as lime chlorosis in alkaline soil).

[FB.]

That's brilliant, Thanks.

The trough is 5ft(L)x1.5ft(W)x1ft(H) i was looking to put about 3/4 of the trees in but didn't really want them to grow any higher than about 6ft.
They'll be sharing the trough with a strawberry plant, a blueberry plant and poss a framberry plant.

Thanks

Due to space limitation, three or four in a 5ft container would be best grown as upright cordons (also known as minarettes).
I'd go for a couple of apples and a couple of pears. Preferably for an extended season of ripening.
M26 (or M9) and Quince C.
If grown as upright cordons/minarettes, they will not need staking (contrary to the usual advice), so will look more attractive. The need for staking is often because of heavy topweight on a wide canopy. But this will not be a problem if they are grown to a height of about 5ft and spread of about 2ft.

Take care not to choose a variety which will be too vigorous and get out of control.

List your suggested variety/rootstock combinations on this topic to make sure that you're not getting one or more which will be out of proportion to the others, since not every variety grows at the same rate (and not every variety has good pest/disease resistance).
For example: Bramley on "semi-dwarf" M26 can match the growth rate of quite a few varieties on "vigorous" MM111.

Be careful if choosing tip-bearers for cordons because they need to be quite low-vigour, otherwise your attempts to keep them within their allowed space will also result in the loss of the fruit-bearing shoot tips.

Also be wary of pears in wet/cold climates as they often don't do well; suffering from chilly weather at blossom time and canker due to wetness.

[Jason Cartwright]

Ok, not the blueberry. Only thought about them because my youngest loves them

[Bigmallly]

You can still grow the blueberry jason, just put it in a pot of Ericaceous compost. FB will confirm but I think you need 2 different varieties to pollinate. I don't think they are self fertile.

[FB.]

Here's a picture I took a few years ago, of a plum in the middle, flanked by a few small apple minarettes, and with my experimental "blueberry pit" in the foreground (a boggy, sack-lined, compost-filled pit).
A few strawberries (and primrose and Helleborus niger) are dotted around on the ground.
The apples were mostly M26, with maybe some fairly slow-growing varieties on MM106 (one on the left is blossoming; probably a Crawley Beauty, given how far behing everything else it is!), with maybe a M9 in there too.

This allowed the plum to spread a bit, to reduce pruning and therefore risk of disease.
You can probably do the same in your tub.

[Jason Cartwright]

I was thinking
April 2012 Mini Orchard Collection | Garden Bargains
and/or
Red Valentine Apple | Garden Bargains

[FB.]

You can still grow the blueberry jason, just put it in a pot of Ericaceous compost. FB will confirm but I think you need 2 different varieties to pollinate. I don't think they are self fertile.

I have three blueberries, but none of them flower at the same time and rarely get visited by pollinating insects.
They still crop well though. So I assume that they are part-self-fertile.

If I remember right, I have one called "Darrow", which often produces fruits so large that the blackbird can't fit them in their beak, so can't steal them very easily!

[FB.]

I was thinking
April 2012 Mini Orchard Collection | Garden Bargains
and/or
Red Valentine Apple | Garden Bargains

I would avoid.

Braeburn needs a hot, sunny climate to ripen well. "Down here" in mild East Anglia, or on the Southern coast there's a chance of adequate ripening (only a chance, mind).
Up North? I think you might be disappointed.

Bramley is ferociously vigorous; it is so fast-growing that it can override dwarf rootstocks.
Bramley often takes many years to start cropping, suffers from bitter pit if pruned too heavily and also is a part-tip-bearer, meaning that pruning can remove part of your next crop.

Victoria plum is very susceptible to many plum diseases (diseases which like to infect the pruning cuts which would be required to keep it in its space) and it is so widely grown that it may not be long before the diseases find yours.

As for the "Red" craze of apples; I think they're a gimmick.

I also see no mention of rootstock, other than "patio".

The reason they offer those varieties, is because that's what everyone sees in the shops, so that's what people ask for; people feel comfortable with what they buy in the shop. However, shop-bought types are best bought from the shops, where they will be cheap and often better quality than a spray-free grower can produce.

There are many better vareties out there which are more suited to home growing in the UK, with very little need for attention.
As for Bramley being the best cooker - yeah, right.
Bramley is only the best if you've not tried anything else. I (and my wife, who has also tasted my many apples) regard it as one of the lowest-quality cookers.


So I apologise for sounding negative, but I'd rather tell you what I think you need to know, rather than beat around the bush and tell you what you want to hear.