Advice wanted: planting apple & other trees

[FB.]

One of my trees is almost completely orange (#4, Tom Putt), is it Trentepohlia? and will it be a problem?
Thanks,
Duncan

From the individual pictures, I can't see anything wrong with any of the young trees.

Can you do a close-up, or explain where you thin you're seeing a problem?

[DuncanM]

Ok will post a close up shortly, the detail must have been lost when I was making them 'web friendly'

[DuncanM]

FB, it's an unclear image, but all I can get at the minute:

I've come to this late so am not sure what you are intending, but I am guessing you want the trees to grow as espaliers or fans? If so they will need cutting right back - check with the supplier. They should look great in a few years. As noted by FB, you will need to be careful about the size of the Tom Putt. I'm impressed you have a Rubinette, and will be interested to hear if you think the flavour is better than Cox.

Yes, in an ideal world they will be 5 tier espaliers, although on M26 I'm not so sure how likely that'll be. Still fingers crossed

[FB.]

FB, it's an unclear image, but all I can get at the minute:

The bark looks discoloured - almost slightly bleached - but does not appear to be cracked, sunken or wet-looking (although the image is a bit fuzzy).

I can see *something*, but without better resolution it could be a variety of things, from a bit of chafing against another branch, to a bit of scarring after a mild woolly aphid attack, to a bit of unusually shaded wood while in the nursery, to the early signs of some kind of stem canker or rot.
The buds near the discolouration look normal, so I think that disease is the least likely cause, although a picture with better focus is needed to be sure.

It may even be a normal feature of the variety or just a weird area of growth due to some strange combination of environmental conditions.
It could be caused by prominent sclerenchyma (think of sclerenchyma as a kind of internal plant scaffolding which holds the stem rigid) and the sclerenchyma have slightly oversized themselves and the bark overlying them is a bit stretched and therefore paler-colour due to the stretching.

[FB.]

Yes, in an ideal world they will be 5 tier espaliers, although on M26 I'm not so sure how likely that'll be. Still fingers crossed

Mulch.....irrigate....high-nitrogen-fertilise....irrigate.....mulch....irrigate.....high-nitrogen-fertilise.....irrigate.

Mulches can be compost or manure.
High-nitrogen fertilisers can be lawn feeds, or, er, urine.
Note that urine is quite strong - especially if the tree is tiny and the urine dose is so large that all the roots get soaked with undiluted urine, so don't overdo it; if leaf edges start turning brown you've overdone it and should give more water and lay off the potent nitrogen fertiliser for a while.
For a very young tree, either dilute the urine, or only apply a cupful every fortnight. Irrigation and rainfall will dilute the potent effect, so the amount of nitrogen-rich fertiliser can be increased if water is plentiful enough to dilute it.

Keep ramming the nutrients, nitrogen and water down their throats and they'll move.
Try to keep most of the pruning in winter while dormant, to invigorate them. Some summer pruning may be necessary, but it will de-vigorate them so only summer-prune where necessary.
Pinching of shoots while force-feeding is the best way to encourage vigorous growth, plentiful branching and spurring, and without removing more than a tiny amount of the shoot tip, so negligible loss of vigour.

Don't expect much in the way of good fruit while pumping them full of steroids, though.

But if you get 'em big quickly, they'll more than make up for the loss of a few scrawny fruits in the first year or two.

This intensive feed/irrigate routine is possible with M26 since it is unlikely to succumb to crown rot from repeated mild over-watering, which is a problem with the more-vigorous (and more usual for espalier) MM106.

[orangepippin]

Yes, in an ideal world they will be 5 tier espaliers, although on M26 I'm not so sure how likely that'll be. Still fingers crossed

5 tiers is unlikely with M26, but perhaps FB's diet will do the trick.

I would check with your supplier on the pruning you will need to start the espalier process, but I think you will need to cut them all back to just below the first wire.

[DuncanM]

Yeah I'm in it for the long run so I won't be impatient with the fruit and will wait for 2, probably 3 years before allowing them to fruit (will depend on the vigour of the plant, so maybe Tom Putt will be the first I let fruit). What's the best way to prevent them from fruiting, just nipping out flowers once they've blossomed?

What's the difference between advice from the supplier and advice from people who actually know what they are talking about? ;-) I'd rather take advice from yourself and FB over a nursery, given I'm able to discuss (and show pictures) of what I'm trying to do making it easier to explain and I trust the knowledge you two have. I'm not sure what espalier knowledge the nursery I ordered from will have (obviously not true for every nursery, I'm sure some are excellent).

As I've only just planted them I didn't want to do any pruning until I'd first sought advice from you two gentlemen, given my experience is approximately zero.

So, the advice, for all 6 - would be to prune the central leader down to just below the first wire? and obviously any side branches that aren't needed (there aren't many - and those that there are would probably be removed with the prune of the central leader).

Once I've done that (assuming I should), would a new central leader be formed?

I should probably go re-read my RHS pruning / training book now I've actually got my trees planted, it's been 9 months and I've forgotten everything in there

Thanks,
Duncan

[orangepippin]

Yes, read the RHS pruning and training book (by Brickell) it is very good - and yes, to train these trees as espaliers they will need to be cut right back to just below your first wire. Within a few years you will be an expert! I think the main issue is going to be the Tom Putt might end up with very different proportions to the others. One further thought - fans are much easier to train than espaliers ...

[DuncanM]

Hopefully I'll be able to manage the extra vigour of the Tom Putt by letting its arms get longer than the others, I dont mind so much as long as the two trees meet, or there abouts - if the Tom Putt makes up for lack of growth in other trees than maybe it will help offset the potential problems with 5 tiered espalier. But it's all a learning curve

I guess the book is this evenings reading then, followed by the purchase of some very sharp pruning secateurs, my fiskers ones have had all manner of stuff on them so I'll keep them for general gardening and the new pair strictly for the apples.

[FB.]

5 tiers is unlikely with M26, but perhaps FB's diet will do the trick.

I would check with your supplier on the pruning you will need to start the espalier process, but I think you will need to cut them all back to just below the first wire.

Yes, I would generally work on M27 being one-tier, and each rootstock step-up allows one more tier.

If the tiers aren't as wide (e.g. 3ft in each direction instead of 4), then the tree should be able to support an extra tier. I got the impression from the pics that the trees have the benefit of deeper soil due to the raised bed, and they looked as if they are about 5ft apart, which M26 should be easily able to fill - so should be able to build another tier in-lieu of the width.
Three tiers of 8ft reach, four tiers of 6ft reach, or six tiers of 4ft reach still works out to about the same tree mass and cropping area - just varying in whether it's low and wide or tall and slender.


1-tier/stepover: M27
2-tier: M9
3-tier: M26
4-tier: MM106/M116
5-tier: MM111
6-tier: M25

[yummersetter]

I don't find Tom Putt to be excessively vigorous, about the same as a Lord Lamborne grown nearby, and 2/3 the size of a Blenheim of the same age. My Dabinett and Kingston Black trees are much younger so I can't compare. Dabinett comes from the next village, so its native soil is clay, Kingston Black is from Kingston on the Quantocks -'The soil in the higher lands is a stone brash alternated with sand, and in the lower a reddish fertile loam with stiff clay in places.'

[FB.]

Hopefully I'll be able to manage the extra vigour of the Tom Putt by letting its arms get longer than the others, I dont mind so much as long as the two trees meet, or there abouts - if the Tom Putt makes up for lack of growth in other trees than maybe it will help offset the potential problems with 5 tiered espalier.

You can always feed and water the Tom Putt less than the others, and allow it to start cropping earlier to slow its growth, while delaying cropping of the weaker ones.
You can also prune Tom twice each summer (say in June and again in July) and the others once (July) when mature. Don't summer prune while getting them up to shape, unless the summer prune is to bring one abnormally strong one back into step with its companions.

M26 is usually an easily controllable rootstock. It is unlikely to grow so strongly so quickly that you don't have plenty of opportunities to bring it under control.

[DuncanM]

FB, you are indeed correct, the trees are about 5 feet 6 inches apart, giving each tree a 2 feet 3 inches space to grow on each side. Hopefully the M26 can do 5 tiers of 2x2' 3" branches, with the regime FB has mentioned, but like I said it doesn't matter if the Tom Putt does 3'-3' 6" arms, leaving the others around it only needing to 2'.

I'll try to remember to update this thread (rather than starting new ones) in the coming years to update people on the progress of them, and more than likely ask for further advice

[FB.]

So, the advice, for all 6 - would be to prune the central leader down to just below the first wire? and obviously any side branches that aren't needed (there aren't many - and those that there are would probably be removed with the prune of the central leader).
Once I've done that (assuming I should), would a new central leader be formed?

Here's what I'd do:
Prune them all back to an inch or two below the first wire.
Then mulch...irrigate...nitrogen-feed...irrigate - and do it like you mean it!
Go nuts - especially with the irrigation as a plant is mostly water. A bucketfull of water, per plant, per week - and twice per week in summer (June-August). Ease off the watering if they end up sitting in puddles for more than an hour after watering - otherwise they'll drown and rot!
The idea is to pump them so full of water and steriods that the topmost buds ought to break out with a vengeance, thus avoiding the weak regrowth common of semi-dwarfs and dwarfs which don't have rich soil.
Train one shoot straight up as a leader, to form the next tier, and train one to each side as the arms.
Punch-out unwanted shoots before they get so big as to knock the tree's vigour when they are removed.

In my poor soil, if not force-fed, semi-dwarfs will tend to send out one weak shoot and a leader - not much use for branching or espaliers.
They don't have the power in the roots to do any more than that in poor soils. But as soil quality and moisture availability improve, so does the regrowth and quantity/size of that regrowth.

edit:
The above "steroid treatment" must only be used on M27 (very dwarf), M9 (dwarf) or M26 (semi-dwarf). More vigorous rootstocks - especially MM106 - will suffer from root rots and die if given too much regular heavy watering - especially wetness near the base of the trunk (including wet mulches - keep mulches an inch or two away from the base of the trunk to avoid rotting and disease problems). The dwarfish rootstocks tend to have thicker bark which is more resistant to rots and fungal diseases.

[FB.]

Couple of espalier pictures: