Advice wanted: planting apple & other trees

[DuncanM]

Wow, they are amazing, especially the top one. Any idea of their age/rootstock/variety?

[FB.]

Wow, they are amazing, especially the top one. Any idea of their age/rootstock/variety?

They are old - several decades. The trunk girth gives an idea of age. The loss of some of the second one's arms also points to an old tree.
I'd guess the branches spread about 2m either side of the trunk - so about 4-5m total width.

I seem to recall that they are replacements for the original Victorian Kitchen Garden espaliers.

Probably dating to around the time MM106 came into widespread use in the 1950's.
So I'd guess MM106 (also the rootstocks had no noticable woolly aphid colonies which fits with MM106). I may have spoken to the head gardener or read a tag mentioning MM106 as that rootstock really sticks in my mind.

I think the top one was a Blenheim Orange. The vigour and resilience of the Blenheim probably explaing why it remains in good condition after many decades.

The tatty one was a medium-vigour "heritage variety" but I forget the name.

These espaliers were probably at a National Trust property near the New Forest (Hampshire) but I'd have to ask the wife which one it might have been.

We are National Trust members, and spend some of our time noseying around the old Victorian houses and their associated walled kitchen gardens. I think our annual National Trust membership fee is very good value for money.

[FB.]

Wow, they are amazing, especially the top one. Any idea of their age/rootstock/variety?

Some more amazing pictures - not mine this time; acquired from a friend, but very impressive pictures of 125 to 150 year-old very vigorous triploid types on ye olde fashioned seedling or equvalent roots.

The second picture shows regeneration due to the sheer strength, resilience and "will to live" of those big triploids. The tree is just beginning its second life after its original trunk went hollow and rotted way. It'll be good for another century or two.

I doubt that many of today's "wonder varieties" will prove to be so resilient - especially given the trend towards somewhat short-lived dwarfing rootstocks.


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[Garden_Chris]

In order from rear of garden to house. All on M26. 1) Rubinette

Out of interest, where did you buy this from? I've been looking into buying one of these but I can't find a supplier.

[DuncanM]

Deacon's nursery on the isle of Wight, although to be honest it was the first place I looked and I didn't realise it was hard to get hold of.

[DuncanM]

I thought I should continue updating my initial thread (might be of use to someone if it's all contained within one post, albeit it might eventually get a few years old )

I'm after some advice regarding the espalier shaping I'm trying to get. Some of the trees I had have grown perfectly for espalier, one left arm, one right arm and a head (laymans terms ) Such as below:



However 3 of them only have 2 branches growing from where the initial pruning cut was made. I'm unsure if I should train one as an arm and one as the head (leader). Or have them both as arms and wait/hope that one of them throws a vertical shoot for the next level of the espalier. Here's a photo of one I tied in tonight to show:




Unfortunately there is nothing mentioned about this conundrum in my RHS pruning/training book.

Thanks

[FB.]

This thread is very long - to save me re-reading it all, what's the variety and rootstock?

[DuncanM]

The ones that only have 2 branches are:

Rubinette, and Tom Putt (x2).

All on M26

[FB.]

The bud nearest the tip (or at the point of the pruning cut) usually tries to continue the direction of the stem. When training espaliers in their early years you have to allow the uppermost bud to grow upwards until you've finished building each level.
Usually at least a couple of other buds below the tip will grow out.
My guess is that the trees don't have enough vigour, or not enough nutrients and water for the roots to feed a third branch.
Branching happens until the tree has the maximum number of shoots to absorb all of what the roots can supply. If the roots are powerful (or well-fed/well-watered) branching can be prolific. If the roots are weak, damaged, diseased or lacking water/nutrients branching will be sparse.

Had it been caught really early (when the shoot was a couple of inches long) the leading shoot could have had its tip pinched-off to encourage an extra branch.

As it stands now, your best bet would probably be to train the uppermost shoot back up in the direction it should be, leave the single side shoot for now, and wait until winter to prune the upright shoot to try again.

Make sure the plants are very well-fed and well-watered this year an next, to try to make it easy for the roots to supply enough nutrients to additional branches.

Alternatively, keep them as stepovers.

[FB.]

It might also be possible to leave them as they are for now, then in late winter prune the strongest of the two "arms" very hard to leave about three buds - a cut made so that the tip-most bud is underneath if possible and the second bud being on the top if possible.
These two buds might then grow horizontally and vertically respectively, although a little training or pinching might be required.

Sketch below - buds shown as black dots.

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[Martin H]

I know it's too late for you now, but my book said that often only the top 2 buds break in the spring. It goes on to say you can avoid this by cutting away a piece of bark above the third bud and that this encourages it to break.

I did this and it worked, I got the requisite three shoots on both the first and second tiers of my baby Bramley espalier. Of course it might have done this anyway...

[FB.]

...my book said that often only the top 2 buds break in the spring. It goes on to say you can avoid this by cutting away a piece of bark above the third bud and that this encourages it to break....

Yes, that's known as "nicking" or "notching". Removal of a small piece of bark above a bud will free it from the hormonal suppression from above.
Similarly, removal of a piece of bark below a bud will free the buds beneath it from the growth-suppressing hormone secreted by buds higher up the stem.

I can't say I've had much luck with it, but I was dealing with weak-growing trees which probably didn't have the strength in their roots to support another branch (MM106 doesn't grow well here unless it's watered heavily a few times per week, or irrigated).

[DuncanM]

Thanks for the advice FB and Martin.

These trees have been watered regularly (especially during the exceptionally hot and dry weather we've got in the South at the minute). I feed once a week with a general purpose fertiliser (Miracle-Gro LiquaFeed All Purpose Plant Food) which I has a high Nitrogen content.

The three I've had problems with are actually the three most affected by aphid attacks which have been terrible - both in quantity and frequency this year. I regularly find I have to squash hundreds of them from the growing tips on all branches.

Is it too late to try nicking the bark to see if I can force a lateral branch now?

[Martin H]

Is it too late to try nicking the bark to see if I can force a lateral branch now?

Best to leave the pruning until the winter and go with one of FB's suggestions (I think I prefer the second one).

Summer pruning slows growth, winter pruning encourages it.

[FB.]

Is it too late to try nicking the bark to see if I can force a lateral branch now?

Nicking and notching works best if done late winter because its effect is most noticeable as the sap brings the plants reserves up from the roots in spring to get growth going.

If you nicked and notched now I'd be slightly concerned that the bark, cambium, xylem and phloem disruption might cut off sapflow between the growing shoots at the tips and the roots connected to them by the xylem and phloem vessels.
When nicked or notched in winter the tips simply won't burst into leaf until the nicks and notches begin to heal and allow sap to reach them, so their need for water and nutrients will be minimal at that time. But right now their need for water and nutrients will be high - especially considering the hot weather.