Apple Advice

[atd87]

Hi All

I would like some recomendations for an apple tree to grow in not so sunny (currently) Wiltshire. I like crisp, juicy but quite sharp apples - buy Granny Smiths.

I know these aren't really suitable for the UK, so does anyone have any ideas please?

[FB.]

Start from the bottom up; the rootstock.

What form do you want your "tree" to be - and how big?

In a tub on the patio, about 1m height/spread?
Flat against a wall?
A bush about 2m height/spread?
A medium size tree about 4m height/spread?
A big tree about 6m height/spread?

Next; what is the soil like?
It is important to match desired tree size/shape to the quality of the soil; poor soils (there are many reasons why a soil may be poor; infertile, dry, shallow, chalky etc) can make even vigorous rootstocks grow like a dwarf. On the other hand, really good soils can supply enough water and nutrients to make semi-dwarfs into quite substantial trees.

Also ask when do you want them to ripen?
Summer apples (which only keep for a few weeks; not recommended to have a big tree because you won't use them all).
Early autumn apples (keep for a couple of months)
Late autumn apples (will keep for several months in a box in the shed, for use as needed until the following spring).

Finally, your choice of variety will be limited to what's on the most suitable rootstock(s) at your preferred supplier.
Most mail-order companies (usually the least expensive) won't supply trees until next winter, so if you want instant gratification you may be limited to the fairly common varieties in local garden centres or local nurseries.

[atd87]

Thanks for the reply FB. I was looking at something like an M26 rootstock, medium size. It will be going in the ground of a fairly large garden and grown as a standard tree - not trained into a fan etc. We have quite good soil here, fairly free draining - but not dry, and seeming plently of nutrients.

From your description of when they fruit, I would most likely be looking at a late autumn variety.

In terms of supplier, I don't really have a preference - happy for recomendations and to see who has varietys that I will like - no point getting something just because its there when its not something I will enjoy! For this reason I'm starting to research early to get something next winter that meets my requirements - after all the tree should last a lifetime.

And finally in terms of polination groups, there are a lot of various fruit trees in a close area - pears, plums, other apples etc so I should be ok there (hopefully).

[FB.]

I would caution against M26 for growing as a free-standing tree as its roots are structurally slightly weak, which can result in leaning or falling over if the tree has a large canopy high off the ground.
The same is true of many of the "dwarf" or "semi-dwarf" rootstocks such as M9 (dwarf; parent of M26) and M27 (very dwarf; offspring of M9).
M26 also tends to aggravate this slightly brittle root structure by growing a one-sided root system.
So M26 is fine for cordons or bushes, but not for trees carrying alot of weight high up in the air.
The roots have thick bark but not much wood - which is why they break fairly easily. However, it is this thick bark which probably gives them resistance to root-rotting diseases.
The thinner-barked, vigorous rootstocks are less resistant to root rots in wet soil, although MM111 is a prolific root producer so can cope with losing a few roots, while M25 is so vigorous that it will often outgrow anything which attacks it as long as the conditions which cause the disease don't persist for too long.

I would suggest that the minimum rootstock you should use would be MM106 for a free-standing "half-standard" tree in good soil which doesn't dry out in summer and doesn't flood in winter.
I suspect that in Wiltshire droughts and flooding aren't often a problem.
If the soil dries out or periodically floods, MM111 would be more tolerant of those challenging conditions - and is my recommended rootstock for half-standards in drought-prone/poor soils of East Anglia and South-East England.

The variety you choose to go onto the rootstock will also influence the rootstock's growth rate.
From what you say, in your soil, for a 4-5metre tree with 1.5m trunk, I'd choose MM106 for vigorous "T3" varieties, MM111 for moderate vigour "T2" varieties and M25 for low-vigour "T1" varieties.

As for a Granny Smith substitute suitable for spray-free growing in your area; I can't think of a variety.

I must say, though, that the only claim to fame of Granny Smith is the long keeping quality of the fruit, which allowed it to be grown on the other side of the world and shiped to the UK.
I think that you can do much better than Granny; you might be amazed at the range of flavours available in apples. Perhaps go to an autumn apple event to see if you can taste a few.

Alternatively, you could consider growing a handful of bushes on M9 or M26 rootstock, in the same space as a MM106/MM111/M25 tree.
This could broaden your apple picking season and broaden your range of flavours and what the apples can be used for.
In your location, for a long-lived tree, I suggest considering varieties which are at least average in their resistance to canker, scab and mildew.

[FB.]

I also meant to say:

The flavour and quality of fruit will vary from one location to another, and with one season to the next.
Also the rootstock can make a small difference.
So just because an apple is rated "best of the best" by someone, doesn't mean that it will do well in your soil or your climate, even if your soil is good quality.

In fact, some varieties do not grow or fruit well in good quality soil; some actually prefer infertile/chalky/gravelly/shallow soil.

[Mato]

I also meant to say:

In fact, some varieties do not grow or fruit well in good quality soil; some actually prefer infertile/chalky/gravelly/shallow soil.

I didn't know this about apples. I thought all fruit thrived on good quality soil. Let's say you only have the good stuff, where would you find the infertile/shallow soil?

[FB.]

Much of the preferences of varieties is why they were grown in certain areas in ancient times. Some areas had such abnormal conditions that only one or two varieties would thrive.

There is a tremendous variation in the preferences of apples for different conditions; soil depth, fertility, pH, rainfall, temperatures (summer and winter) and sun strength.
Even rootstocks have particular soil preferences.

There is a variety for every condition.

Put the right variety, on the right rootstock and you'll hit the jackpot. But if you choose a variety which doesn't like your soil or climate, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

As for infertile/shallow soils in England, here's a link which mentions several areas affected by strongly alkaline chalky soil, which is a death sentence for many plants and therefore the soils tend to be shallow due to lack of organic matter buildup over the millennia:
Southern England Chalk Formation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some people plant a fruit tree which dies, so they think it was their fault for not looking after it. However, it is more than likely simply not suited to their local soil.
Most of my neighbours say they "haven't got green fingers", but, in reality, it is the horrible soil here which kills the plants. Soil here is shallow; about 1ft deep; a mixture of sand, gravel, chalk and loam sitting on top of sand and gravel subsoil all the way down to the water table, with chalk under the water table. We also are very dry - 15-20 inches of rain per year. We are also known for the very drying breeze, and many old windmills remain in the area (mostly now converted into residential).

Problems are severe; drought stress, lime chlorosis, potassium deficiency, low soil fertility, powdery mildew, codling moth, aphids and woolly aphids. But, over the years, I have gradually defeated them all by careful scion/rootstock combinations, assisted by acquiring copies of very old books when the growers really knew how to grow fruit trees.

Commercial growers nowadays always go to great lengths to choose the most favourable locations, accompanied by irrigation and a full spray routine.

[FB.]

If you go to one of the links in the first article, it takes you to this one:
Chalk Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which mentions
"....In parts of the Thames Basin and eastern East Anglia the Chalk is concealed by later deposits, as is the case too within the Hampshire Basin...."

In my area, as implied by the above quote, sand and gravel overlie the chalk, but if I travel about five miles South, the soils in parts of Cambridge are grey-white with chalk, and there are a number of former chalk (cement) quarries in Southern Cambridge which are now flooded and became lakes. But aerial pictures (such as from goole maps) show just how white the soil in nearby areas is:
Google Maps