Gooseberries and Bramley apples

[redser]

Hi,
My gooseberry plants were coming on great but I just noticed that some of the new branch growth has snapped where it joins the old growth. Is that common, should you support new growth? They are new plantings from last autumn.

Also noticed that all my lovely Brmley blossoms have come to nothing. First time growing a tree. Would it just have been wind do you think? Is it a bad year for fruit trees in general by chance?

Thanks a lot.

[rustylady]

I should think it would be the wind that snapped your gooseberries. How old is your apple tree?

[redser]

Thanks, must put up some windbreak or something.
This is its first year. I think it was 2 years old when I bought it. It went in the ground last autumn too. Was told I should get a crop this year. Maybe some windbreak for that too would help.

[rustylady]

It's a bit young at 3 years to be producing a crop really. The main problem with my fruit this year has been the cold snap that occurred just when the plum blossom was open. No insects = no pollination = very poor crop predicted this year. Too early to tell about the apple tree yet, blossom's only just finishing (and it's a mahoosive apple tree)

[redser]

Thanks, I didn't consider polination. That's probably it, I know it needs two other types to polinate, so if there were no insects I guess then no chance. Didn't relaise it would be so hit and miss with trees.
Cheers

[rustylady]

Plenty of time in the future. Remember, a tree (specially a fruit tree) is for life, not just for Xmas

[redser]

True true. But it's a whole nudder yeeeeeeeaaaaaarrrrr

[FB.]

If you want a fruit tree which crops heavily and regularly at a young age, Bramley is the one NOT to go for; it's quite the opposite of what most people want from an apple tree.

Bramley has several major issues:

It likes to grow into a really big tree (one of the largest apple trees known) and can take many years before it settles down into regular fruiting. Even dwarf rootstocks don't always help - and neither does its tip-bearing nature (because pruning to control size removes half of next year's crop).
Bramley and similar vigorous types of fruit tree will often blossom at a young age, but it seems as if some kind of hormonal mechanism makes the flowers sterile until the tree is several years old.

Adding further to the problems of Bramley is that it is triploid. It is not much good at pollinating either itself, nor any other apple tree. So if there isn't a suitable pollinator apple tree within a few gardens distance, then your Bramley may not get pollinated.

If the weather is bad, there may be very few bees flying, resulting in no pollen transfer from other apple trees to your Bramley.

However, even if your Bramley was to set fruit, the chances are that the fruit would be riddled with bitter pit until the tree stops growing; the new shoots and the fruits compete for nutrients, with the fruits tending to lose out and be malnourished (hence small, flavourless and often bitter pit).

Next, a small tree with only a few blossom clusters is of no interest to bees - especially if it's a long flight from their nest. Bees will be far more interested in bulk-harvesting from much bigger trees which have thousands of blossoms.

Also bear in mind that many apple trees - especially Bramley - will become biennial as they age - often fruiting heavily only every second year.

So if I were you, I'd concentrate more on getting the Bramley to the size and shape you want for its mature years, because you may not get much fruit of good quality for several years.
Soil which is too fertile (especially if there's too much nitrogen) increases growth and reduces fruit quality.

The best fruit is from mature trees in fairly infertile and slightly dry soil. This puts the tree under stress, making it put its best efforts into producing good offspring (fruits) just in case the slightly-less-than-ideal situation ends up killing the tree.

[redser]

Thanks very much for all that information! I won't hold my breath so Will prepare the earth around it and try have some flowers going next year to help bring in the bees. It's on an allotment plot so was hoping partners would not be a problem. Only time will tell I guess. Thanks

[FB.]

If it's on an allotment, if the tree only wants to grow and not blossom, give the Bramley some competition by planting other fruit bushes around it (currants are easy to propagate from cuttings - just ask a neighbouring plot holder who'll probably gladly give you some).
Also don't feed or water it if it is growing too strongly and not fruiting.

Over-vigorous growth can be hard pruned in July, which should improve cropping in subsequent years.
Weak-growing or sickly trees must never be summer pruned. An old apple tree (about a mile from me) in need of some TLC was pruned last summer, but, of course, the leaves hadn't had time to transfer their sugars and nutrients to the roots for the winter, and I noticed in recent days that the tree is now dead.
Cause of death: lack of knowledge on pruning technique.
If the tree was mine, I could have brought it back into production within a couple of years, and probably kept it alive for another couple of decades.

edit:
Actually, I would never have allowed it to get into such a state in the first place.
Most people neglect pruning, then have to do a lot of unsightly pruning all at once, which takes them a whole day.
Just a few minutes work every winter or two can keep a mature tree neat, healthy and productive.
Guiding a young tree's growth with proper pruning (even if at the expense of fruit) can make a huge difference to the lifespan, health and cropping once the tree is mature. Greed and laziness in the early years are not likely to result in a good tree.

[FB.]

On the subject of good pruning, here's a picture which I took a few weeks ago, of a very young apple tree, which has been allowed to retain its leader (topmost upright shoot) in order to flatten the branch angles below the leader due to the tendency for lower shoots to subordinate themselves to the unpruned leader, and grow outwards rather than upwards.

At the end of this season, the leader will be removed, to leave a nice, strong, wide-spreading primary branch framework (wide-angled branches tend to gather more sunlight, be stronger; narrow branches tend to cause irregular/weak wood and bark structure, also allowing water to become trapped in the angle, then rot, break off or even split the tree in half under heavy fruit load or in bad weather).

So sometimes it's not always about pruning; this one's needs were assessed and the decision taken that NOT pruning the leader (well - not pruning its lead out until next year) would result in a better tree when mature.
As for fruit? Any shoots resembling fruit spurs along the trunk were removed, in order to concentrate the trees energy on forming a good structure. I can do without a few low-quality fruits now, because I know that this tree will reward me with huge crops of high-quality fruit in a few years time.
Having been trained well from the start, it will not require muich attention once it is mature. Better to spend a little more time to GET it right, rather than later have to spend a lot of time to PUT it right.

[redser]

Thanks again FB. It is planted close to two other apples trees and generally in a part of the plot with currants, raspberries, gooseberries.
I know absolutely nothing about pruning but I know I need to know about it. Will be doing some reading between now and winter. Thanks

[FB.]

Pruning is about planning ahead; looking at how the tree is growing now, and anticipating how it will be shaping-up in a few years time. It's about taking minor action now, to prevent the need for major action later.

At any time, you or anyone else can take an overall picture of the tree and ask "what should I be doing and when?".
It would also help to state the location (in your case: Dublin), the soil quality, the variety, the rootstock, and what is required of the tree when mature (mature size, shape etc).

[redser]

Fantastic, thanks for the offer. I'll be sure to take some photos before I start to hack at it.

[BUFFS]

gooseberries branches do snap easily in the wind,so shelter it or move it,the bramley will be suffering from that cold spell,mine are only just in blossom now,because being further north,we are weeks+ behind those of you further south,it seems you got hit by the cold at the very worst time,but next year your plant will be that much stronger and able to carry more fruit..two things you need to garden successfully,eternal hope and a sense of humour....and the further north then more of the latter,think of those gardeners in the likes of inverness....