Which branch should I train as the central leader?

[cazp]

I am not sure which branch I should train as a central leader on my scrumptious minarette, there are two contenders - see pic below.



The left branch is the straightest, but it is not as tall and thick as the right hand branch. It also has that stump next to it which I don't think is ideal (could it be trimmed?).

The branch lower down on the right is sturdier and taller - however isn't as straight but perhaps it could be trained.

Which would be the best? any help appreciated.

[orangepippin]

This is a common situation. If you are happy for the tree to grow taller then you can cut the stem just above the right branch, removing the left shootand making the stronger right shoot the topmost shoot. It will then naturally grow towards the vertical - but you can help it by tying it on to the metal support.

If you prefer the left shoot (perhaps because you want to keep the tree smaller) then cut back the right shoot, possibly to the first leaf, and tie any further growth horizontally to prevent it competing with the leader. However this may not be as successful as letting the right shoot have its way.

[FB.]

You can choose either.
But you should leave both in place at the moment as the pruning in its early years should be done
during the dormant season.
For now, just tie the one you want in position, and bend the other out of its way and remove it during the winter.
You could also try regularly pinching-out the tip of the one you don't want, which will "force" the sap reaching the top of the tree to run up the other shoot and strengthen it.

Narrow branch angles and twin leaders are a common occurrence when pruning is done. Nowadays I prefer to see what branching the tree will do of its own accord, since such "natural" branches tend to have better angles and less likely to compete with the leader.
The more vigorous varieties tend to be less likely to branch without encouragement. In these instances, I like to pinch the tip off a branch which is growing too strongly, since this gives a brief bottleneck of sapflow and an opportunity for lower buds to vent this off by growing-out before the pinched tip starts growing again to reassert its dominance (its dominance keeps the lower buds dormant).

With such heavy rain in recent months, I have some fairly vigorous shoots which will be far too long by the end of the season. So I have pinched-out the tips of many of them. This will vent out the strong growth into secondary branches (i.e. I'll advance the tree structure by two years in just one season!) and it will suppress the growth of branches which try to compete with the leader.

[FB.]

It also looks like there's a stub of dead stem above the highest branch.

I would think that the cause was either pruning too late in the winter, or winter-freeze damage shortly after pruning.

This lifeless twig should also be cut out in winter, to prevent it rotting. There's a good chance that the tree will cause it to drop off anyway in a few years time, but you might as well get rid of it sooner to avoid the small chance of it causing a problem.

[FB.]

Actually, having thought about it some more......

I'd keep the more upright one, in order to preserve the upright shape.

The other shoots, I'd consider pinching-out the tips immediately, in order to encourage bushy growth throughout the tree, which, in the future can be used to speed-up the building of a spur system.

[orangepippin]

So I have pinched-out the tips of many of them. This will vent out the strong growth into secondary branches (i.e. I'll advance the tree structure by two years in just one season!) and it will suppress the growth of branches which try to compete with the leader.

The growing tips of shoots, especially the main leader, release hormones which suppress the buds below them. Thus cutting the top off is not just about giving an alternative direction for the sap, the main effect is to remove the hormonal influence of the leader, allowing other shoots to break out and start growing.

[FB.]

The growing tips of shoots, especially the main leader, release hormones which suppress the buds below them. Thus cutting the top off is not just about giving an alternative direction for the sap, the main effect is to remove the hormonal influence of the leader, allowing other shoots to break out and start growing.

Indeed.
The whole art of training and pruning is to do with manipulating the plant hormones to get it to grow as you want it to.

If the rootstock is particularly strong or the growing conditions particularly good, it is not unusual for a shoot to grow strongly in April-May (say 2ft in a couple of months), and then start to form its own nicely-angled 1ft long side branches during June-July.

Aphid attacks are great for encouraging branching.

Did you se the following pic which I posted a few days ago?
It's a M25-rootstock tree in a large barrel (for planting-out in a couple of years time).
It suffered a severe aphid attack earlier in the season, as seen by the crinkled darker leaves. The aphid attack briefly stopped the growth of the leader.
The plant is now fighting back with an explosive burst of new shoots coming out all over the place.
There must be over a dozen shoots, but not all are easily visible.

In the coming winter, all I need to do is remove the leader and I'm left with a nice, wide-spreading set of primary branches suitable for a three-quarter-standard tree. Courtesy of the aphids!


Just like the OP website description says

".....Although not particularly disease resistant or resistant to phytophora (collar and crown rot) M25 is so vigorous that it can often outgrow these problems....."

[FB.]

I hear someone asking.

"It looks a bit one-sided"

Yes, when planted in the barrel the roots were very much one-sided. One-sided, or pendulum-like growth habit is a feature of the scion variety in this instance. Some varieties are like that and we have to live with it.


"Why grow it in a large barrel?"

Firstly, it gives the tree a running start - of a more substantial size, able to have built up a good reseve of nutrients before having to find its own in a very poor soil. The barrel contains a mix of compost and my nasty alkaline <pH 7.5> topsoil, in order to help get the roots adjusted to my hostile soil.
Its "containerised" roots will not be significantly damaged during the transplanting process (unlike bare-root) - just as long as it is not left in the barrel for so long that its roots coil round the pot and end up deformed.
It will, however, have the soil knocked-off its roots before planting into the shallow infertile soil where it will have to cling on for dear life for the rest of its days. Notice the bare patches in the grass, the weeds and theb fairy rings. This is a recent picture which emphasises just how bad the soil is; the grass is still barely alive!

Growing in a barrel for a couple of years also allows me to carefully inspect the roots after it has had a couple of years for any latent infection to activate. I don't therefore end up wasting my time planting a tree, only to wonder why it isn't thriving after planting.
I've been caught out in the past by poor nursery stock which brought crown rot with it, which killed the trees a few years after planting.
Nowadays, of course, I graft a number of my own trees, subject to having enough rootstock from my own stock. Only a few days ago I planted-out a home-grafted Winter Gem MM111; grafts taken from my old M26 cordon which has performed incredibly well in very difficult growing conditions.



A picture of the nasty grassed-over soil where it will one day live is below (about 1ft infertile sandy-gravelly-chalky topsoil sitting over 1ft of sand and then 6ft of gravel).

[cazp]

Actually, having thought about it some more......

I'd keep the more upright one, in order to preserve the upright shape.

The other shoots, I'd consider pinching-out the tips immediately, in order to encourage bushy growth throughout the tree, which, in the future can be used to speed-up the building of a spur system.

Thank you all! Seeing as this is a minarette tree I may well go for the left branch to keep the tree straighter - is it ok to cut the stump off right down to the base? I would of course treat with seal and heal.

[FB.]

Thank you all! Seeing as this is a minarette tree I may well go for the left branch to keep the tree straighter - is it ok to cut the stump off right down to the base? I would of course treat with seal and heal.

You can cut it close to the trunk during winter pruning, but I'm not sure why you'd want to.
If the branch is shortened (but not removed) in winter and pinched-out in summer, you should be able to rapidly convert the buds on it to become a cluster of fruit spurs. The strength of the growth of the branch (as judged by its size and thickness) should mean that there already is an excellent sapflow to it, capable of sustaining quite a few fruiting spurs.

The whole idea of minarettes is to induce lots of short side branches up the stem, which will become fruit spur systems.

[orangepippin]

Did you se the following pic which I posted a few days ago?
It's a M25-rootstock tree in a large barrel (for planting-out in a couple of years time).
It suffered a severe aphid attack earlier in the season, as seen by the crinkled darker leaves. The aphid attack briefly stopped the growth of the leader.
The plant is now fighting back with an explosive burst of new shoots coming out all over the place.
There must be over a dozen shoots, but not all are easily visible.

In the coming winter, all I need to do is remove the leader and I'm left with a nice, wide-spreading set of primary branches suitable for a three-quarter-standard tree. Courtesy of the aphids!

Thanks for the excellent photo. Aphids don't often get mentioned in the list of diseases affecting apples, perhaps because they can attack any variety. They are a very serious problem though, and although trees on vigorous rootstocks will grow through the attack as here, on less vigorous / dwarfing rootstocks they can cause the tree to lose a year's growth.

[FB.]

Thanks for the excellent photo. Aphids don't often get mentioned in the list of diseases affecting apples, perhaps because they can attack any variety. They are a very serious problem though, and although trees on vigorous rootstocks will grow through the attack as here, on less vigorous / dwarfing rootstocks they can cause the tree to lose a year's growth.

Yes, I understand that "organic" (i.e. limited spray) growers are recommended to go one rootstock class larger than an equivalent regular (full-spray) grower in order to give a bit more vigour to combat the higher burden of pests and diseases when trees have a low-spray or no-spray routine.
I seem to recall that where full-spray commercial growers tend to use M9 or M26, "organic" are recommended to use M116 or MM106.

Aphids are seriously de-vigorating to young trees. Scabby leaves on unsprayed trees can also be seriously de-vigorating on unsprayed trees in wet areas or wet seasons. The handful of local "John Downie" M25 crabs are in a terrible state of scabbiness and mildew this year.
They've lost about half of their leaves, which is definitely going to set them back a couple of years and probably reduce cropping for a year or two - perhaps even reducing their resilience to other pest or disease attacks.

[cazp]

You can cut it close to the trunk during winter pruning, but I'm not sure why you'd want to.
If the branch is shortened (but not removed) in winter and pinched-out in summer, you should be able to rapidly convert the buds on it to become a cluster of fruit spurs. The strength of the growth of the branch (as judged by its size and thickness) should mean that there already is an excellent sapflow to it, capable of sustaining quite a few fruiting spurs.

The whole idea of minarettes is to induce lots of short side branches up the stem, which will become fruit spur systems.

Hi FB.. it was the stub of dead stem above th highest branch that I was thinking of cutting close to the trunk... leaving the left branch to grow on as the leader. I imagine cutting this dead stump close to the trunk should be ok?

It also looks like there's a stub of dead stem above the highest branch.

.