Apple Tree Advice

[davet]

I am a total beginner to any form of gardening but am getting hooked. I was given three apple trees from family for my birthday and they are Braeburn , James Grieve and
one grown from seed which I can't Identify. Pictures enclosed. The unidentified tree is the smallest and all new growth of leaves comes the leaves are ok for a while and seem healthy then they go black curl up and dry out to almost dust.

The Braeburn and James Grieve are grafted on dwarf stock and seem to a lesser extent to have the same problem as the unidentified tree, However they have doubled in size in 4 months and now the James Grieve is over 6 foot tall with lots of new leaves.
The Braeburn is similar but not as tall yet and not growing at the same rate.

First question: Can you identify the problem and any action I can take on the leaves.

Second Question: How and when do I prune the Braeburn and James Grieve as they are going up like rockets and I want them to fruit but remain small.

We are sheltered east to west but do get some winds funneling through from north to south. We live near Loughborough, Leicestershire fairly well up on the wolds.

Well my first thread I hope it is ok with the right amout of info. See photos.
Many thanks

[FB.]

James Grieve probably has scab, although it might not be - a couple of pictures of different leaves would help to show more of the brown lesions.

Braeburn has mildew.

James Grieve is known to suffer from scab in some locations (and canker - I lost mine a few months ago to canker).

Braeburn regularly pops up suffering from mildew.

You can get sprays to deal with the problem, but sometimes it goes away the next year, since fungal infections are influenced by the weather - which has been shocking this year, so some disease is to be expected.

Personally, if I can't grow a variety successfully in most years without spraying, then I let it die or re-graft it with something which does have strong disease resistance.
I "collect" old, rare varieties which are tough, vigorous, healthy and capable of growing in the most awful soils.
In fact, a handful of the ones I grow do really well when the soil is nasty and not so well if given lots of care. I think that's why some old varieties have fallen out of favour: the commercial orchards give the trees too much care, when actually the trees enjoy a tough life.

The difference in growth rate of your trees is not surprising: James Grieve can be quite vigorous and Braeburn is average growth rate or a little less. So on the same rootstock I would expect the James Grieve to become a larger tree.

I strongly advise not to prune them until we know which rootstock you have. Dwarfs might look strong, but they are easy to kill with careless pruning during the summer.
So tell us the rootstock(s) and then we can suggest what pruning and when.
My inclination woudl be to leave any pruning until winter (Dec-Feb) when they are dormant and the leaves all fallen. Then start pruning to shape them - they look a bit straggly and unbranched at the moment and some winter pruning would help. Takes some pics in the winter and ask again then - although knowing the rootstock now would be helpful.

The tree gown from seed is not going to be identifiable because seedlings are new varieties. The offspring will have some of the characteristics of its parents - maybe even a crab apple - but is unlikely to be the same as its parent. That's why varieties are grafted and not grown from seed because seedlings are very variable.

You may well find that the seedling grows much larger and faster than the dwarfs. A size equivalent to MM106 or MM111 is about "average" for a seedling, but seedlings can vary from very dwarf to very vigorous. The quality, quantity and type of fruit will be unknown and seedlings are notorious for taking longer to start full cropping.

[davet]

Many many thanks for your very detailed reply. I have checked the root stock given on the labels and it is M26, I hope this helps. I have attached some more photos. Again Many Thanks.

[FB.]

Again, the pics are still a bit difficult to be sure, but I still think it looks like mildew and some scab on the Braeburn, and scab on the James Grieve.
Both varieties have been reported to suffer from those problems, so that make sthe diagnosis even more likely.

None of the pics shown would cause me to take any action now.
But if some entire stems of the Braeburn have the dwarfed, pale, white-coated leaves typical of mildew (before the shoot then dies and goes brown) I would snip them off to avoid it spreading - but only if you are sure it's mildew.

If your rootstock is M26, it is a good choice.
It has enough vigour to fend for itself (unlike the dwarf M27 or M9) yet is more predictable in a variety of soils and conditions than MM106 and less prone to root rots than MM106.
Its only disadvantage is not being resistant to woolly aphids.
If I was planting an orchard, M26 would be my choice for semi-dwarf trees of about half-full-size when mature (i.e. several feet height and spread, but variable due to soil quality and the vigour of the variety on top; not all soils/climates are equal and not all varieties grow at the same rate on the same rootstock).
M26 can easily have its size controlled by summer pruning once it is mature.


But for now I would not prune - I would prune them in winter in order to get them to the shape and size I want
During the winter, take some pics and we'll see what pruning would be best, depending on how you want them to look when mature.
.

If you push a young dwarf or semi-dwarf tree too hard for fruit, you may simply end up wasting several years where the tree is not strong enough to grow and fruit at the same time (so ends up doing both badly) and where what few fruits you do get are destroyed by pests or diseases before they ripen, so dwarf tree's precious energy is wasted.
Even if the pests don't get them, a weak root system caused by the tree trying to do everything at once will result in malnourished fruits which are of poor quality or even inedible - perhaps the tree will also start to lean, fall over or break the branches under the weight of fruit.

[FB.]

Here's a picture of a fruit with a variation of bitter pit (basically malnourished fruit):
The brown areas are not due to the usualy browning reaction of apple with air, but due to death of parts of the apple due to a poor balance of nutrients. Dwarf trees, with their weak roots (and also the medium-vigour MM106 if grown in conditions which it can't cope with; dry-ish soil in low-rainfall regions), often suffer severely severely.
The fruit is bitter-tasting even when "ripe" and most are so unpleasant that they are inedible and even the birds won't eat them.

[FB.]

More nutritional deficiency in the fruit:

[FB.]

Oh and some disease pictures:

Powdery mildew (third picture shows it beginning, while the first two pictures show it at its worst):

[FB.]

scab

.

[FB.]

more scab

[FB.]

canker and crown/collar/root rots:

[FB.]

More bitter pit: