Apple Tree advice

[youngandkeen]

Hi All.

Last September I bought a property and inherited an apple tree.
When we moved in the tree was absolutely full of fruit.
Although the apples were all covered in scabs they tasted ok if cooked with lots of sugar.

I am looking for some advice as this year the tree only has 2 apples on??

I have read past threads stating that it could be due to the weather and bees not pollinating but to me the tree does not look right.

The leaves have brown spots on, there is a slit in the trunk and some of the leaves look very dishevelled almost sun burnt?. My husband did attempt to trim the the tree in January but not very well as you can see from the pictures. There was also loads of earwigs in the tree when we harvested the apples last year, would they affect it?

If anyone could offer any advice I would be extremely grateful.
Also I know its a long shot but if anyone knows what type of apple tree it is that would be fantastic.

[Ananke]

I can't really give you any advice but thought I'd let you know you're not alone with apple tree problems. My tree is only in it's third year, last year it had about a dozen apples, this year it has none, there were a few that dropped a while ago and my tree's leaves look like the ones in your picture.

Heres hoping it is just the weather and they will be fine next year.

[FB.]

The tree has some scab, but that's hardly surprising in wet years.

Many apple trees go biennial - they produce such a heavy crop one season that they are exhausted and need a year to recover, so they get stuck in a biennial routine. For larger trees, there's a limit on what you can do.

From the pictures, the tree generally looks in satisfactory health. The effects of the winter pruning are showing in lots of green shoots.

If it was my tree, I would - over the next couple of weeks - cut back much of the new growth to just a few inches in length in order to:

1.
Reduce the crowding.

2.
Reduce the height of the canopy to make picking easier and allow better ripening of fruit on lower branches.

3.
Reduce the vigour of the tree.

4.
Encourage additional fruit bud formation for next year.

But remember that I might not be seeing the "full picture" and perhaps the tree has not sent out such large amounts of new growth as it appears to me.

Do you have any clues as to the variety and the rootstock - or even where/when the tree was acquired or what the fruit are used for? Cooking? Eating?

I'm inclined to think Bramley on MM106, but the leaves look a bit pale and the branches a bit thin for a Bramley. So if it's not a Bramley, its vigour may be signalling that you may have quite good soil; round here, even the old Bramleys only get to about that size by age 100 but your tree looks much younger than that - probably less than 25 years old.

The tree also looks a bit "flimsy" in that the trunk looks quite thin compared to all the topweight it's carrying; I'd be slightly concerned about the tree being blown over or split in half in a storm.
I suspect that the large split in the bark on the lower trunk may be a sign of the weight stress which the rather thin trunk is having to carry.

I'm guessing that someone planted it and then left it to mostly do its own thing.

[FB.]

Oh and the earwigs are nothing to worry about.
They sometimes crawl inside an apple from the bottom and eat the core, but mostly earwigs are beneficial in that they eat some of the more damaging pests and their eggs - such as eating codling moth and apple sawfly maggots (the "worm in the apple").

Summer-pruning (August) reduces vigour and channels that excess vigour into fruit buds for the next season.

Here are a couple of pictures which I've posted before on how an apple tree ought to look (basically keep it mushroom-shaped and not lollipop-shaped) and the second picture ws my suggestion for renovating someone's tree:
In the last picture, I have tweaked your original photo into what I would be aiming for: a flatter canopy and keeping the canopy under control until the trunk has thickened a bit more in order to carry all the topweight.

[orangepippin]

I don't think it is Bramley, the leaves seem too thin.

[FB.]

I don't think it is Bramley, the leaves seem too thin.

Yes, it's a bit peculiar.
If it's not a seedling, the probabilities favour a common variety.

Probabilities also strongly favour MM106 rootstock.

Judging by its size, I'd say quite a vigorous variety.

The fruits look "lumpy" as is often seen in triploids and cookers.

But the leaves are quite pale and elongated for a triploid.

Scab on the leaves also suggests a fairly common variety - due to many common varieties being rather prone to scab.

It's relatively young age also makes a rare variety unlikely.

I can't detect any canker in the branches, which, considering it's been neglected, suggests that it's at least partially resistant.

So what does that leave us with?

Vigorous, common, biennial and sometimes scabby varieties would include:

Bramley (but the leaves are too pale and slender)
Blenheim (the eye on the fruit is too sunken and Blenheim's aren't usually as knobbly)
Laxton's Superb (which is also a slender grower, but often has distinctive internodes and the fruit are fairly rounded).

So perhaps we're dealing with a tree planted from seed, which would explain its vigour (about MM111) and its atypical features? I certainly can't pick out a graft line (although grafts aren't always easy to see after several years, or may have been accidentally buried).

Alternatively, the previous owners of the tree knew about older and rarer varieties and acquired one. But the fact that the tree hasn't been kept to a normal orchard shape makes me doubt that the previous owners were apple conoisseurs.

[youngandkeen]

Oh wow thank you so so much for your advice, I will get onto starting to cut it back this weekend.

Apparently, when the houses on this estate were built (in the 1950s) every garden had a fruit tree planted, some have pears others plum. I don't know if that would help in identifying it at all? Or even if this is the original tree??
The apples I tasted last year were quite bitter, but they ranged in size they were not uniform but then I dont know if apples are supposed to be.

Im in Royston and the soil here is quite chalky, again I have no idea if that is a good or bad thing.

Once again thank you so much for your help I am extremely grateful.

[FB.]

Chalky soil is usually quite nasty for apple trees - and for many fruit trees.

If every house had a tree, the developers may have been advised by landscapers as to suitable varieties. Certainly round here you tend to see quite a lot of landscaping trees chosen for their ability to tolerate the conditions.

When I replied yesterday, I was going to mention and old variety, but thought "no, an average householder who doesn't know how to prune their tree <i.e. the previous owners who left it to do its thing> would not seek out an unusual variety such as this". So I didn't say anything.
But now you point out that the tree was chosen by landscapers who may have had knowledge of local conditions, I have a few ideas - one seems very likely but needs more information.

When did the fruit ripen - roughly which month and was it early, middle or late in that month? Does late September sound about right?

Were the fruits deep red on one side, pale creamy green on the other, had quite large pale brown dots all over them, held onto the tree quite well, and not much troubled by "maggots" inside the fruit?

Also, are there any traces of white fluffy material on the tree which look like patches of fungus (but are actually woolly aphid)?

[Feral007]

Ohhhhh this is like a detective novel!

[FB.]

Ohhhhh this is like a detective novel!

I've got a good idea of what it is and which rootstock would probably have bene used, but I don't want to bias any opinions.

If I say what I think it is, the owner might be tempted to research it and their answers may then inadvertently become slightly biased.

I'll PM you what I think it is, and why, Feral.

No offence intended to the owner but we need completely unbiased answers.

[veggiechicken]

I'm intrigued too but I don't want to know the answer. I want to work it out for myself using the clues in FB's message

[FB.]

I'm intrigued too but I don't want to know the answer. I want to work it out for myself using the clues in FB's message

I told Feral what variety I thought it was (I could be wrong!), but I can send most of the message to you without any giveaway bits.

Don't want to influence the owner's replies to the questions in my 10.05 post this morning though.

[veggiechicken]

Thanks for the offer FB. I'm going to look at my apple books and see if I can find something suitable first. Maybe I'll PM you with my thoughts - but it won't be for a while!!

[FB.]

Rootstock, based on size of the tree and its age, seems most likely to be M2 (Malling number two) as it was commonly used for half and full standards in the early and mid 20th Century and is reasonably tolerant of dry/light soil, which is a common occurrence in the low-rainfall East Anglia area.

Possibly could be MM111 or M25 rootstock, which were being released around the estimated time the tree was planted but nurseries have old habits and are hesitant to change, so new rootstocks often take years to catch on, so MM111 and M25 seem less likely.

Rootstock might also be seedling, or some kind of crab; a few nurseries supplied (and still supply) more unusual options.

[youngandkeen]

Yes, late September sounds about right. And yes they were red on one half and I guess yes you could call it pale green on the other.
OK, now Im thinking were they brown spots or scabs, my inexperience I'm afraid is showing.
Im thinking back and yes when we picked them we were questioning these brown spots on them. I am saying they had scabs as when attempting to do some sort of research on brown spots on apples the results I was getting was they must be scabs! Does that make sense?
Very very few had maggot holes.
No white fluffy stuff on the tree.
Apparently before we bought the property it was rented out for quite a few years and the tree was pretty much left to its own devices.

Can I just say again I am blown away by all of your advice and help thank you so much.

I am determined to sort this poor tree out