another patio cherry tree question...

[Sarico]

hi i bought last winter a patio cherry tree and FB suggest to prune in spring so you could encourage the plant to grow sideshoot and i did as FB said... now i'm bit confused because this side shoot are growing a lot and they are more the 3 foot long. what should i do? i read that summer pruning will help to keep the shape under control and is what i want considered that they are bending against the fence,but as FB advice young tree shouldn't be prune in summer...tomorrow i will make some pictures... i hope anyone can help...

[FB.]

That's a lot of growth - more than I manage even on the kind of rootstocks which I use for full-size trees.
What rootstock is it on?
How are you growing it - and what are you feeding it with?

I usually suggest not pruning a young tree in summer because dwarf rootstocks don't usually grow very fast - especially not in their first year while they're settling in.

With your existing tree growing so fast (worryingly fast ) I would suggest pruning the side branches now, at the point where you'd like them to form more branches.
If it's as vigorous as you imply, it'll start growing several new shoots from near each pruning cut and you'll have primary and secondary branch structure in place by the end of the season!

[FB.]

I should have also said:

I do not normally recommend pruning young trees because they need time to settle in and are often slow in their first year. Dwarfs are especially slow to establish and usually grow very slowly.
So it is usually a good idea to be gentle with them.

However, if they are growing rapidly, it doesn't hurt to prune some or all of the new shoots during the summer.

But as I mentioned in my previous post: in my experience it's very unusual for a patio or dwarf tree to grow side branches of 3ft in one season, and in my experience even vigorous rootstocks only just about manage that kind of growth rate, so if a patio tree in a container is growing so quickly, I would wonder whether it was mis-labelled.

[Sarico]

i will phone the garden center tomorro if i can get in touch with them... but i found the same tree on an other website at the same price and they say that is gisella 5....but i will phone j parker and ask them...

[FB.]

i will phone the garden center tomorro if i can get in touch with them... but i found the same tree on an other website at the same price and they say that is gisella 5....but i will phone j parker and ask them...

They'll probably say "it's dwarf".

But mistakes happen at nurseries.
I once had an entire batch of trees mis-labelled (not true to type) and eventually gave up and dug them all out and replaced them.
I've also had an occasional tree not true to type in other orders.

How are you caring for your tree?

What is it planted in? A pot? How big a pot?

Is it filled with compost?

How often are you feeding or watering?

Are you spraying any chemicals?

How big was it before you pruned it and how much did you prune off? Is it simply re-growing what was cut off?

At the moment there's a lot of pieces of the puzzle missing and it all might make perfect sense if you gave more detail.

In any case: although young trees should not normally be pruned in summer because they are too weak, there may be occasions such as this where summer pruning is required to keep them under control.
For example: the very heavy rainfall we've had this year caused my hazels to grow out of control. So I cut them all down to the ground about a month ago while they were in full leaf in order to not only reduce their size, but to dramatically slow their regrowth as a result of them losing all their winter reserve which had just been used to produce leaves at the time I cut them down.
However, since hazels are grown on their own roots, they can be cut to the ground. Fruit trees are grafted, so cutting down to the ground would remove the grafted variety.
But I emphasise: cutting back hard can be dangerous for the plant, especially if it wasn't growing strongly before it was cut back.

Rather than pruning your cherry, I would have pinched-off the tips of the shoots when they got to the length where I wanted side branches to grow out; that way I would have achieved two years of framework in just noe season, which would have meant an earlier start to heavy fruit production.

[Sarico]

thanks fb..this is all the info i can give you...
this tree was bought last november when i recived was a bare root tree and i planted it in a 70cm plastic pot with 2 inch of gravel on the bottom and filled it up with b&q multipurpose compost ( i put a 120 litre bag) then another 2 inch of gravel as mulch... then before spring i noticed that the top of the 3 original branches (about 2 foot long) were damage and as your advice i cut them half way where were the first healthy green bud...(as you suggest in this post http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...nch_63924.html ) then the tree start to grow and put a quite few new side shoot ( i can't remember now how many but about 5 or 6)
since the summer is been very wet i watered the tree only when we had more then 4 5 days of dry wheather.
about feeding considered that doesn't have any fruit i've been using some comfrey ( when i feed my tomato i always have some left in the waterin can. that is about every 5 7 days but as i said not much maybe 1 or 2 pint)
the branches that i cut was only 1 foot or a bit more and the side shoot as i said are way too long... anyway today i didn't have a chance to take some pics because i went to work all day and this morning the weather was not that good..
tomorro i will take some pics...

[Sarico]

ok pics available now...


this first picture is from the 17 april when the first leaves start to forming.. everything is ok


this picture is 1 month after on the 15 of may still growing but under control

then after june start to grow very fast and the branch getting floppy and bend down... now i put a longer stick so the top branch (that is as well forking in two branches)is straight because i thought is the leader branch ....






as you can see is over 2 ft this branch


this is the top... all you can see is the new grow... is like another tree on top



plus i just phone the garden centre and i had the impression that they think i'm lying saying: that not possible... are you sure is the kordia cherry tree? the root stock is a very dwarf so..... can in phone you later so i can contact the garden manager?
so now i'm waiting and see if they know what rootstock it is

[FB.]

plus i just phone the garden centre and i had the impression that they think i'm lying saying: that not possible... are you sure is the kordia cherry tree? the root stock is a very dwarf so..... can in phone you later so i can contact the garden manager?
so now i'm waiting and see if they know what rootstock it is

Well clearly from the picture, you're not lying.
But I've never seen a dwarf grow that strongly and it sounds as if the nursery are surprised too.

If it still has the label attached, you might be able to take it back for a refund. I wouldn't bother with a replacement because it might be the same (a bad batch).

My best guess is that somewhere in the grafting, transporting or labelling, a mistake has been made, either with the nursery selling the tree, or at the time the tree was grafted in the orchard.
Mistakes happen from time to time - as I said earlier: I've had some which were not the correct variety or not the correct rootstock.
Sometimes nurseries or orchards substitute the nearest variety or rootstock.

I'd estimate that about 10% of trees aren't correctly labelled - and perhaps an even higher number of those sold from discounters at "end of season clearance" are incorrectly labelled, or had lost their label and someone made a best guess as to what it was.

[Sarico]

well when was delivered was a bare root and with no label i presumed that was the cherry tree because the other trees were in pot and label apple... anyway i will give it a go... can i still try to control the tree? should i prune it now? thanks for your help FB

[FB.]

The leaves and growth habit look like cherry.

With bare root trees, a label is printed in the nursery office and they send someone out to dig up a tree of that type. The label is then put on the tree and it is shipped to you.
It sounds as if someone dug up a tree from the wrong row in the nursery. Human error.

I think that your best bet for trying to control the tree will be:

Grow it in an equal mix of garden soil and compost to allow the strong roots to work harder to find the nutrients.

Don't feed it too often.

Prune and pinch-out shoots in summer.

[Sarico]

thanks FB... so i will prune now and i think when the plant is dormant i will change a bit of compost with some garden soil.... thanks again

[FB.]

thanks FB... so i will prune now and i think when the plant is dormant i will change a bit of compost with some garden soil.... thanks again

If you plan to ask for a refund or replacement but you prune it, you won't be able to "prove" that it was too vigorous.

If you plan to keep it, I would change the soil/compost now, along with a hard prune and less feeding/watering.
When changing the compost or transplanting in summer time, try to make sure that the roots aren't out of the compost/soil for more than about 15 minutes.

[Sarico]

ok tomorrow i'm off and i hope the wheather will be ok.. i'm out to b&Q and buy some soil...i will keep it anyway. maybe if it get taller i will moved to the front garden considered that i don't have anything in there....

[Sarico]

just got the phone back... they said is a gisella 5.. plus they ask me to send some pictures to them so they can investigate if is been a mistake or not....

[FB.]

ok tomorrow i'm off and i hope the wheather will be ok.. i'm out to b&Q and buy some soil...i will keep it anyway. maybe if it get taller i will moved to the front garden considered that i don't have anything in there....

Buying soil?
Why not just dig a bit of soil out of the front garden?
You can fill the hole in the front garden with the unwanted compost from the plant pot, or even some grass cuttings or other "green" waste such as kitchen peelings; it'll all rot down into the soil.

To slow the tree growth further, you could put some other plants in the pot - something fairly drought tolerant so that you don't have to water too often (which would then fuel the cherry tree growth).