Soil pH and manure...

[DuncanM]

Hi All,

As mentioned in a post asking for advice on apple tree types a good few months ago at least I've come around to starting to prep the area.

The area is a concrete path, approx 1 metre wide which I have just started to knock out.

Now the surrounding area has been used to store lots of building materials for the past 9 months, of which cement and hydrated lime have leaked out of the bags I had them stored in. There won't be anymore deposits as I've removed the now empty bags, and any lumps of concrete or deposits of lime and cement but obviously the water washing these into the soil will have already done it's damage and as such it's got me wondering what state the soil is actually in. I plan on turning over the soil to a depth of about 60-80cm to add lots of horse manure and loamy soil/compost to give the sandy soil some help. Do you think it's best I test the pH before or after I add the manure, and what's the ideal pH for apple tree growing?

Thanks,
Duncan

[FB.]

Apples prefer a pH about 6.5, tolerating pH 6 to pH 7 but problems can arise outside of the pH 6-7 range.

It sounds like the soil has had a lot of lime leaching into it over the years (which includes from the path itself). I'd consider replacing the soil if possible. Digging-in manure/compost will help, but there will remain a lot of lime for many years. Sulphur is sometimes used to neutralise lime. The manure itself won't drop the pH by much (other than through its dilutive effect on the alkaline soil with near-neutral or only slightly acid manure).
A soil test would be useful, although if you plant a chalk (lime) tolerant variety then you won't have much to worry about.


How big do you want the tree to get?

[DuncanM]

I wouldn't say leaching in to it over the years, more past 9 months. I want a max height of 2metres, possibly 2.5 (but over quite a few years). I want to train them as cordons, in a south facing garden against a North to South fence (on the west side). I've got the following types ordered:

2xKINGSTON BLACK - M26 1ST YEAR
2xSELF-FERTILE COX'S ORANGE PIPPIN - M26 1ST YEAR
2xTOM PUTT - M26 1ST YEAR
1xDABINETT - M26 1ST YEAR
1xWORCESTER PEARMAIN - M26 1ST YEAR.

If the soil has been seriously affected by the lime (only a test will tell) then I'll try and bring it into line with 6.5ph reading by neutralising any lime as you've mentioned above. Appreciate the advice!

[FB.]

M26 is a good choice for the size you want them to reach.

What made you decide to choose those particular varieties?

[DuncanM]

Of course it's a good size, you recommended it to me

There was a topic on it a few months (maybe even as many as 6 I don't know) where I was asking for advice.

Essentially, the cox and pearmain for eating, the rest for cider making. I originally was going to go with all kingston black, but from your advice I diversified due to bi-ennial crops and it's quite susceptible to diseases.

[dod]

I'd strongly recommend testing the soil pH, both in diferent locations, and also at different depths. Soil tends to have quite a good buffering capacity (although this will usually tend to be more limited in sandy soils), and any change in pH will depend on the acidity/alkalinity before the lime.