Planning new orchard in Brittany

[orangepippin]

Very interesting to have popular suspicions confirmed in the Diversity quote that virtually all supermarket apples have to be sprayed to be viable. It's deeply disturbing when something is perceived to be pure and wholesome, like an apple, but carries traces of hidden polluting substances. You don't trust Nachos in the same way . . . . thank goodness that so many people are now growing their own fruit.

The reason they are sprayed is not just because of the variety though, it is because commercial orchards are trying to achieve cost-effective production and the highest proportion of Class 1 fruit. Gardeners are usually prepared to accept a lower quantity of first-grade fruit in order to grow without spraying.

You could of course buy organic apples, although I don't think the regulations for organic spraying are as tight as they are for conventional regimes. There's also the well-known (possibly apocryphal) story of the Dutch organic apple orchard which is surrounded on all sides by conventionally-sprayed orchards ...

[FB.]

The reason they are sprayed is not just because of the variety though, it is because commercial orchards are trying to achieve cost-effective production and the highest proportion of Class 1 fruit. Gardeners are usually prepared to accept a lower quantity of first-grade fruit in order to grow without spraying.

You could of course buy organic apples, although I don't think the regulations for organic spraying are as tight as they are for conventional regimes. There's also the well-known (possibly apocryphal) story of the Dutch organic apple orchard which is surrounded on all sides by conventionally-sprayed orchards ...

I agree that "organic" is not nearly as "spray-free" as many would believe. Basically all it means is "no synthetic oil-derived chemicals". But there are many natually occurring chemicals or plant extracts which qualify as organic, yet I find them quite frightening!
I tend to have little interest in organic produce because I actually think it's a gimmick and I have doubts over some of the substances used.

Spray-free is a different matter; I grow spray-free.

Some apples are much easier to grow without spraying than others. But these "easy care" varieties do tend to be somewhat lighter croppers, or more variable croppers, or produce fruit which isn't round, even-shaped, smooth-skinned, shiny, red etc.
They lack "shelf appeal" as one comment on your website states.
Consumers are seduced by the appearance of the apple; they judge the book by the cover.

Many of the "easy care" varieties are:
1. Russets
2. Tough-skinned
3. Dense/crispy/hard-fleshed (but long-storage or cooking softens them)
4. Late-ripening
5. Cookers/dual purpose
6. Not too much red colouration
7. Triploids

Red attracts the pests, so aples which stay green as long as possible tend to suffer less.

Russet, tough skin and dense flesh keep the pests out: it's hard work for the pests to break into the apple. In many cases, I think the codling larva die of exhaustion or get eaten by predators before they get through tough skin and flesh.

Late-ripening/cooker/dual purpose keeps the fruit as sharp/acid, hard and green as possible for as long as possible. If you don't like sharp/acid, hard and green, why should the pests?

Triploids tend to have small, shrivelled seeds, which isn't much of a meal for a codling maggot once it's inside. So I expect that lack of good pips in triploids would somewhat limit codling moth larva's ability to feed properly (since the pips are actually what codling are looking to eat).

And you'll find that most of what I grow, falls into many of the above catrgories. My early and middle season varieties tend to be tough-skinned or stay green until the few days before ripening.

On the other hand, red-coloured and thin-skinned varieties such as Discovery and Scrumptious can suffer heavy damage from pests.

[yummersetter]

The reason they are sprayed is not just because of the variety though, it is because commercial orchards are trying to achieve cost-effective production and the highest proportion of Class 1 fruit....

It looks to me as if the majority of commercially produced apples are bought by parents to give their children, with the idea that these perfect looking fruit are the healthiest food they can give them. I'm not saying that half a maggot is a good mouthful, but perhaps kids need to know that imperfect fruit can be better, tastier, healthier, than the glamorous supermarket displays.
By the way, does anyone know what the Paralympic opening ceremony apples were?

[sabc15.]

Hi. Brit,i know i am a bit late seeing you original post,but i am new to this forum,did you decide which trees to plant,i am also in Brittany and planning a small orchard of about 100 fruit trees,and just wondered which you finally decided on.sabc15.

[Nicos]

Brit hasn't been on again since the date they posted that question! ...so I doubt you'll get a reply sabc15.

Hi there - and welcome to the Vine- from the ultra-snowy side of the Channel!
Why not introduce yourself??

[sir david]

Hi Folks
As someone living in France I have been very dissapointed in trying to buy apple trees with named root stocks . I even tried to buy trees at the local argrucutural college and when asked how big the trees would grow was told it depends how big you let them ! When my GF explained in French what I was on about about they just looked puzzled . The same with the local shops . Best to order from the UK I recon

David
Angers , France

[FB.]

at the local argrucutural college and when asked how big the trees would grow was told it depends how big you let them !

Then I would assume they are using seedlings for rootstock (probably Golden Delicious seedlings), which will, indeed, grow as large as you'll let them.
There is a great fear of vigorous rootstocks and concerns that they are slow to crop, but as I said to Orangepippin a couple of weeks ago; in my poor soil I have no problems with early and heavy cropping on vigorous rootstocks - and that includes pears on seedling pear rootstocks which "the books" tell you should take a lifetime to start cropping.

It does depend on the soil quality (depth and fertility), the rainfall (plants get bigger the more water they get) and how you manage them (pruning and training).

[orangepippin]

The response is arguably correct - the height is largely up to you, at least with dwarf trees in an area like Angers in the Loire which has an almost perfect climate for growing fruit trees. If you want them to grow tall (3m+) just let them. If you want them smaller, make them crop at a younger age. This is the sort of flexibility you get from a good climate - but it wouldn't apply in the UK.

[Nicos]

Peeps round here mostly grow Boscoop ( sp??)
Bramley is in GREAT demand by the Brits!