Training an apple tree

[FB.]

I still think you'd be better to choose three different varieties on M9 or posisbly M26 rootstock. They'll be a much better balance of tree size and pruning workload, for the way you're proposing to grow them.
M26 is happy in average soil and doesn't need much feeding or watering compared to M27/M9.
I like my trees to be servants, rather than demanding pets which need feeding, watering and regular grooming (pruning).

I can see all kinds of problems trying to keep the different branches growing where and how you want them to. I really don't think that a multi-variety fruit tree would work well for the intensive training and pruning of a fan or espalier.

[gingerneil]

Thanks again.
I dont think I will have space for 3 trees, and will therefore stick to 2. Garden Products at Unbeatable Prices | Selections do 2 yr trees on M26 rootstock - I am looking to order a braeburn and coxs orange pippin. I know these are common and some may therefore say boring, but they are popular for a reason and I know the family will enjoy eating them. They also keep well.
Does that sounds a reasonable plan ? How far apart should I plant them, and should there be a minimum distance between them and the end of the raised bed ? Maybe a foot ?

[yummersetter]

I'd say you could do better. That's a high price to pay for what you get. Can you wait for about 8 weeks till the leaves have dropped and get bare root trees from a specialist fruit nursery?

[FB.]

It's not about being boring: it's about having a tree which is healthy and productive without needing to spray potent chemicals a dozen times per year.

Cox and Braeburn are popular because they are what people see in the shops. They are not easy to grow in many parts of the UK unless you are prepared to spray them.
I think you'll end up coming back here within a year or two asking such things as:

"Why have all the leaves gone brown and fallen off?"
"Why are all the fruits split and rotten?"
"What's this white stuff all over the leaves and why are the new shoots dying?"

Have a read of the following to try to understand what I'm saying:
Inbreeding/genetic narrowing in modern apple cultivation, DIVERSITY website

Plant a Cox or Braeburn next to my Belle de Boskoop, Norfolk Beefing, Coeur de Boeuf, Gascoyne's Scarlet or Barnack Beauty (to name just a few) and the difference in health, vigour and cropping without chemicals will be easy for even a child to see. Those oldies in my collection are immune or virtually immune to diseases which will cripple a Cox or Braeburn in a matter of months, and potentially kill them within a year or two. No Cox's survive more than a few years in my area as they are just too sickly. On the other hand, Belle de Boskoop, Barnack Beauty or Gascoyne's Scarlet are indestructible.
A lot of Barnack Beauty trees turn up for identification in this area as they're so tough that they can survive the punishing summer droughts and mildew.

It would be a shame if you have to learn the hard way.

[yummersetter]

Can I suggest that to fill the time till the better planting season you seek out some home grown apples in your area to taste. A quick look turned up this:-

Suffolk Heritage Orchards - George Hodgkinson grows old varieties of apples, greengages and plums including local vareties such as apples St Edmunds Pippin from Bury St Edmunds, and Sturmer Pippin from Sturmer near Haverhill, plus the Suffolk plum, Coe's Golden Drop. The concept is to grow rare local varieties plus varieties known to have been grown in Suffolk, that are not available to buy in the shops. The orchards, of dwarf rootstock, cover about 4.5 acres. Tree were planted in 2003/4 and more are planned for 2005/6. the fruit is for sale this Autumn at Farmers' markets, please call for more details.

The Hall, Church Hill, Monks Eleigh, Ipswich IP7 7JQ

01449 740478

and on Apple Day in October there'll probably be more - then you'll have a better idea of taste that you can achieve in your garden, against supermarket varieties that are probably grown in a different situation and using cultivation and post picking techniques you might not like to follow.

[FB.]

gingerneil

You might even find that apples trees cannot be grown in your area, due to a combination of:

Hot
Dry
Sandy
Shallow/infertile soil
Salty air

All, that is, except D'Arcy Spice, which originated hundreds of years ago, just down the A12 to the South of you, near to Colchester, at Tolleshunt D'Arcy. It is also sometimes called Baddow Pippin - Baddow being just near Colchester.

D'Arcy Spice apple trees for sale | Order online

Apple - D'Arcy Spice - tasting notes, identification, review this apple tree

However, if lots of people are growing the variety in your area, its disease resistance may be reduced due to old diseased D'Arcy Spice trees spreading diseases to any young trees planted within wind-drift.

[orangepippin]

Even in Suffolk, Braeburn would be a choice for the optimist rather than the realist. It is of course a superb apple, but it needs a warm and reliably sunny climate. It is also, as FB suggests, a bit prone to scab although not seriously so. If you have a sunny south-facing wall to plant it against, and you already have some other reliable cropping varieties to keep you supplied with apples, then it is certainly worth a try - I would not make it my only apple tree though.

If you like Braeburn and Cox, then try Chivers Delight - it is from Cambridgeshire, it's a Cox-style variety, but I'd argue has the same dense crisp fruity texture of Braeburn. It's fairly easy to grow and should do well in your area.

[FB.]

Oh and when people say that D'Arcy Spice is very slow growing, they mean VERY slow growing.

It grows at perhaps half the rate of an average variety, tending to put most of its energy into an absolutely huge root system with a tiny little twig on top.
A maiden M25 D'Arcy Spice will be no more than a 2-3ft tall twig.
Of course, such an oversized root system for such a tiny, slow-growing tree gives it a lot of endurance in difficult soils, infertile soils and extreme droughts.
It is able to continue growing (albeit very slowly) and hold its fruit long after its companions are shutting down and dropping their fruit and leaves in order to stay alive during drought stress.

I've even experimented with D'Arcy Spice and it is possible to dig-out several-year-old trees on vigorous rootstocks in mid-summer, and they don't suffer transplant shock because the little tree on top of the big roots isn't very demanding of water and nutrients in comparison to the roots supplying it.

[FB.]

Chivers Delight - it is from Cambridgeshire, it's a Cox-style variety, but I'd argue has the same dense crisp fruity texture of Braeburn. It's fairly easy to grow and should do well in your area.

I'd second Chiver's Delight as worth a try. It definitely grows best in East Anglia. Chivers' fruit farm was located within a couple of miles of the very driest and one of the mildest parts of the UK.
Chivers Delight can be a little prone to canker in some areas, but canker isn't such a problem in drier areas.

Braeburn - like Cox - will not withstand the powdery mildew attacks in hot, dry, thundery regions. like I said earlier: in my area, mildew will make a serious mess of the tree before it even gets its leaves opened in my area.

[FB.]

Some not-too-diffuclt-to-find varieties which I'd shortlist, include:

Adam's Pearmain
Allen's Everlasting
Barnack Beauty
Beauty of Bath
Brownlee's Russet
Early Victoria (Emneth Early)
Edward VII
Gascoyne's Scarlet
Gladstone
Golden Noble
Grenadier
Irish Peach
Peasgood's Nonsuch
Reverend Wilks
St.Edmund's Pippin
Sturmer Pippin

[gingerneil]

The continued advice is excellent - thanks!
I like the look of:
Discovery (M9)
Worcester Pearmain (M9)
Sunset (MM106)

Any thoughts ? All being sold as bareroot cordons that are 2 years old.

[FB.]

The continued advice is excellent - thanks!
I like the look of:
Discovery (M9)
Worcester Pearmain (M9)
Sunset (MM106)

Any thoughts ? All being sold as bareroot cordons that are 2 years old.

The Sunset on MM106 would be expected to grow at quite a different rate to the others.
The Worcester and Discovery are really "pick-and-eat" varieties which need to be eaten as soon as possible after picking, and Worcester is only 2-3 weeks later to ripen than Discovery, so you may end up with too many apples in early September, which go off or rot before you can use them.
Fruits of both Discovery and Worcester are attractive to codling larva (maggots) and in some years (mild/warm) a very large proportion of the crop can be damaged.
I generally work on the assumption that every Discovery/Worcester will have a maggot in it, until cutting it open has proven otherwise.
I've had less maggot problems from the earlies which aren't so red - such as Irish Peach and Laxton's Epicure.
Late-ripening apples, and cooking apples, tend to not suffer as much with codling maggots.

[gingerneil]

I never knew chosing a set of trees would be so hard! I'm struggling to find those you suggested as cordon grown on M9 or M26... I am looking for an early, a mid and a keeper. Dont mind if there is one cooker in there.

[orangepippin]

I find Discovery very reliable, and don't have the codling moth issues that FB has. Discovery is a bit like Beaujolais Nouveau - very nice as a sign the new season has arrived, although not as tasty as some of later more refined varieties. Discovery is however one of the best varieties for juicing, the flavour is a delicious sharp/sweet balance. (Also look out for a possibly related variety called Rosette, where the juice is pink).

I agree with FB, you probably only need one of Discovery or Worcester, not both.

Sunset is a good reliable variety, generally problem free.

If you can't find trees as 2-year cordons, then 1-year "maidens" are almost as good.

Choosing fruit trees is definitely complicated (albeit pleasurable). They are by nature a long-term project so it is worth spending time at the start to get the right varieties for your requirements.

[gingerneil]

Thanks. I'll stick with the Sunset, chose one of the others (prefer pearmain from what I have read) and then search out a third.
Getting there...!

Egremont Russet (I love these!)
Discovery
Red Falstaff

Again, all on M9.