plum tree from seed

[darcyvuqua]

ok i had a pack of 4 plums and ate them cracked the stones open and only got one seed that was not destroyed opening the stone

has anyone germinated the seed and grew on to a healthy size?

im gonna gine it a go anyways

[zazen999]

On my new site [see signature] we have about 250 self seeded damsons, and they are all looking healthy!

We are digging them up and they will be sold as wild damsons next year, until we work out whether they are likely to be the same variety as the parents. Alternatively, we will use them as root stock and graft known varieties onto them.

In her book The Thrifty Forager - Alys Fowler advocates sowing loads of fruit seeds so that in years to come, you can plant out fruit trees and bushes for later generations to forage from - and we will have a 'Future Foragers' bed where we sow fruit pips and seeds, and encourage visitors to do the same. And we'll donate these to local woodland projects as they grow.

[veggiechicken]

What a smashing idea, Zaz! I've been wondering about damsons/plums myself. In my garden there is an old ?damson that has a number of small saplings around it. I've never worked out whether they are self seeded or suckered. Its the same with the wild cherry - but I've assumed that is suckers. I'm curious now!

[darcyvuqua]

i would love to know more about grafting

[orangepippin]

In her book The Thrifty Forager - Alys Fowler advocates sowing loads of fruit seeds so that in years to come, you can plant out fruit trees and bushes for later generations to forage from - and we will have a 'Future Foragers' bed where we sow fruit pips and seeds, and encourage visitors to do the same. And we'll donate these to local woodland projects as they grow.

I think Alys is a bit misguided on this one. It probably works to an extent with plums, but generally doesn't work with apples - which do not grow true from seed. Seedling trees also take a long time to come into fruiting, compared to grafted trees. And when they finally do, certainly in the case of apples, for every 1 tree that is vaguely half-decent, you will get 99 that are crab-apples. That's because most commercial apples that you get in shops and markets are pollinated in the orchard by crab-apples.

Far,far, better to learn to graft.

If you really want to grow apple trees from seed (and I do, even though I know the odds of success are similar to the lottery) start with apples that have come from a very small orchard or from some kind of fruit tree collection, where pollination will have been from other good quality apples, not from crab apples.

[zazen999]

I think Alys is a bit misguided on this one. It probably works to an extent with plums, but generally doesn't work with apples - which do not grow true from seed. Seedling trees also take a long time to come into fruiting, compared to grafted trees. And when they finally do, certainly in the case of apples, for every 1 tree that is vaguely half-decent, you will get 99 that are crab-apples. That's because most commercial apples that you get in shops and markets are pollinated in the orchard by crab-apples.

Far,far, better to learn to graft.

If you really want to grow apple trees from seed (and I do, even though I know the odds of success are similar to the lottery) start with apples that have come from a very small orchard or from some kind of fruit tree collection, where pollination will have been from other good quality apples, not from crab apples.

Yes - that's why I said that they would be used as grafting material if they didn't come true. And the idea IS that they take years - not for immediate use.

[zazen999]

What a smashing idea, Zaz! I've been wondering about damsons/plums myself. In my garden there is an old ?damson that has a number of small saplings around it. I've never worked out whether they are self seeded or suckered. Its the same with the wild cherry - but I've assumed that is suckers. I'm curious now!

You can use the saplings as root stock and graft onto those so that you know what the samson is going to actually be. Clever isn't it?

[orangepippin]

Yes - that's why I said that they would be used as grafting material if they didn't come true. And the idea IS that they take years - not for immediate use.

I can't see the point of grafting at some point in the future on to failed seedling trees, which in any case are extremely wasteful of space, and space is likely to be more and more precious in the future. It is not as if these seedling trees will take that long either, my last batch started producing (crab apples) after 4 years, which is hardly planting for your heirs. This sounds like a romantic idea that hasn't been thought through properly - although I must admit I have not seen first hand what Alys is proposing so I could well have misunderstood it.

[DuncanM]

What about the idea of growing as many apple trees from seed purely to chop them down and use for smoking? I'm hoping any extra vigour (e.g. Bramley not on a limiting rootstock) would grow relatively quickly and when any of them get too big I chop down

[veggiechicken]

?Smoking? ............

[DuncanM]

Applewood smoked cheese mmmm

[veggiechicken]

But you only need a branch to make sawdust and that will give you enough to smoke for years Mine has!!

[zazen999]

I can't see the point of grafting at some point in the future on to failed seedling trees, which in any case are extremely wasteful of space, and space is likely to be more and more precious in the future. It is not as if these seedling trees will take that long either, my last batch started producing (crab apples) after 4 years, which is hardly planting for your heirs. This sounds like a romantic idea that hasn't been thought through properly - although I must admit I have not seen first hand what Alys is proposing so I could well have misunderstood it.

You seem obsessed with apples! This is about sloes, elders, damsons, cherries, grapes, sea buckthorns: pretty much anything except apples - however you can graft on to crab apples and use the saplings as rootstocks. And it's about putting future foraging opportunities around your local area for future generations.

It's only you that mentioned apples which as we know mainly produce crabs when sown.

[orangepippin]

You seem obsessed with apples! This is about sloes, elders, damsons, cherries, grapes, sea buckthorns: pretty much anything except apples - however you can graft on to crab apples and use the saplings as rootstocks. And it's about putting future foraging opportunities around your local area for future generations.

It's only you that mentioned apples which as we know mainly produce crabs when sown.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The point I was trying to make is that in my opinion it would be far better to *graft* and plant useful varieties to create future foraging opportunities, as you will get more reliable results and also quicker results. Scattering fruit seeds at random sounds romantic in a Jonnie Appleseed kind of way, but won't be as useful.

[zazen999]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The point I was trying to make is that in my opinion it would be far better to *graft* and plant useful varieties to create future foraging opportunities, as you will get more reliable results and also quicker results. Scattering fruit seeds at random sounds romantic in a Jonnie Appleseed kind of way, but won't be as useful.

But this is about the randomness of nature - and about putting back what you have taken. And it's not about scattering seeds but sowing them and looking after them in your own growing area, and then planting them when they are larger plants.