Cordon plum and cherry would you recommend?

[FB.]

I don't think I have ever seen a tree with just fruit at the end of the branches, would look a bit out of balance! though I guess i've never really looked closely, and i suppose the twigs , branches are all at different height, levels etc..

a day without learning is a day wasted !

Tip-bearers tend to have a drooping/weeping habit with all the weight at the ends of the shoots.

Part-tip-bearers tend to have a spreading habit, make nice "specimen trees" and have the most attractive blossom displays along with a pleasing tree growth habit.

Spur-bearers usually have less attractive blossom displays due to all the previous season's (outermost) shoots being bare wood (the shoots having to be two-years-old before they can form spurs). This also tends to result in partial shading of the fruit on bigger/denser trees and lower fruit quality as a consequence.

[BUFFS]

to FB,the bramley i bought was put in and trained as an espalier,it was originally going to be a step over,but i soon realised that wasnt practical,so instead of 1 tier,there is now 4,and i dont know what the rootstock is,it was bought as a mini orchard,with braeburn,pear and plum,this tree has produced from its second year here and we got just over 63lbs of good fruit off it this year,being a late blossom,the rest of the apples/pears were blank this year...

[FB.]

Hi Buffs.

My Bramley (on M26 - well, supposedly ) just isn't interested in blossoming. It simply wants to grow......grow.....and grow some more.
I could knock it into cropping with some sensible summer pruning, but it needs most of that high vigour to re-grow what I have to hack off every year due to severe woolly aphid attacks which make a terrible mess of it; splitting the bark, making the twigs bent and nobbly and making the branches brittle.

[Pineberry]

My father in law has got a cordon apple, he does not remember what variety or where did he buy it from or how long ago but it is long ago. The tree is never being pruned as it is rather hard to access it being between the shed and fence. However the size of it is just what I want it is no more than a meter wide but tall and bears masses of fruit. I really thought columnars does not need any pruning apart from keeping its height to your satisfaction. Is it a different variety of cordons or just a fluke? Is ballerina apples the same as cordons?

[veggiechicken]

You can't compare an apple tree with a cherry or plum - different creatures with different growing and pruning requirements. Its like trying to prune a leylandii and turn it into a weeping willow.

[FB.]

Is it a different variety of cordons or just a fluke? Is ballerina apples the same as cordons?

Your father's apple is probably just a fluke - unless it's a ballerina*. Perhaps being grown in a narrow space on a semi-dwarf rootstock has encouraged it to put its energy into growing upwards towards the light rather than outwards.

* Ballerina types tend to be natural upright cordon, column or minarette shapes which produce mostly side spurs along the stem rather than side branches.
I've never bothered with ballerinas as I've never been impressed by their fruit quality or disease resistance. I did once consider one or two as space-saving pollinators for some of my bigger trees - one of the Ballerina types is apparently extremely early flowering (Tuscan/Bolero) and could fill a niche for pollinating some of my early-flowering varieties.

Also to consider is each variety of apple (and other fruits) has its own unique growth habit. Some have thick stems while others have thin. Some have wide branch angles and some have narrow branch angles. Some make tall upright trees while others make shorter but much more spreading trees. Some produce lots of branches (ideal for cordons) while others produce less branches.

[FB.]

The tree is never being pruned as it is rather hard to access it being between the shed and fence. However the size of it is just what I want it is no more than a meter wide but tall and bears masses of fruit.

It may produce masses of fruit - but does the fruit grow to a useful size or ripen properly in a cramped, dark corner?
Does the damp corner encourage pests and diseases? Scabby, split fruits, mildewed leaves, woolly aphid colonies splitting the bark and disfiguring young shoots?

Cooking apples are more likely to do well in semi-shade. Maybe also Scottish varieties which are often more tolerant of cooler duller summers (which is mimicked by semi-shade).

[How much?]

FB, To my bare root Bramley.

5' two year old with a straight central leader and very spindly branches, about to be planted to become a columnar.

Do I prune back the central leader a third to encourage vigour or leave it alone until it reaches desired height?

The spindly branches that are about 18", prune back hard or remove?

I find your replies very interesting, thank you

[FB.]

FB, To my bare root Bramley.

5' two year old with a straight central leader and very spindly branches, about to be planted to become a columnar.

Do I prune back the central leader a third to encourage vigour or leave it alone until it reaches desired height?

The spindly branches that are about 18", prune back hard or remove?

I find your replies very interesting, thank you

If you want it to be upright leave the leader alone but shorten the side branches. Definitely don't remove the side branches as they will not re-grow, resulting in a long bare tree-like stem; just shorten the side branches to encourage the buds nearest the pruning cuts to form more small secondary twiggys branches off the main side branches, on which fruit can be borne in future years.

Basically when you prune a tree, it will redirect some of the growth in the other direction - prune the sides and the tree will grow more at the top and become upright; prune the top and the tree will bush more and become spreading.

[How much?]

Thanks FB, you're a star!

[Pineberry]

The fruit of ballerina of my father in law is quite nice, not large in size but usable ( about tescos fun size apples). Also considering this years amount of rain the tree is disease free and no disfigurements on the fruit either. I am surprised as well. It gets enough sun as it is quite tall now so a lot higher then the shed. In comparison he also got discovery apple in full sun and not obstructed but that one is beign very poorly ( large fruit but only few, and tree itself is ugly)
I though ballerinas are the same as cordons. Pomona has large selection of different varieties. While garden centres like nottcuts have ballerinas of one or two types only. There is a lot to learn for me. Thank you for all your knowledge you provided to us.

[orangepippin]

Ballarinas are not cordons, although they look similar. I believe they are all derived from a naturally columnar non-branching sport of the well-known McIntosh apple. McIntosh is not often grown in the UK, but I would expect it to be fairly disease-free in drier areas (in other words probably similar to Spartan, one of its offspring).

Unlike a cordon trained version of a regular apple variety, a ballarina will not revert to a regular tree shape if left un-trained. However ballarina types generally have only an average flavour, although new versions are being developed. If you want the best flavour you are perhaps better choosing a cordon-trained form of a good quality apple variety, but the downside is you will need to prune it regularly to maintain the shape.