apple arch

[pwlynch]

I would like to grow an apple arch,any advice.I live in Fife.What would be the best rootstock to use?Would I need an arch to grow them up or could they just be supported by strong stakes until they grow enough to tie together?

[boundtothesoil]

I tried and failed to grow an apple arch consisting of just two trees on either side about ten years ago because:-
1) I didn't choose suitable varieties (i.e. modest vigour, spur producers, not prone to canker, complementary in blossom/fruiting times etc).
2) I didn't choose the right rootstocks (i.e. something properly semi-dwarfing under my soil and climatic conditions, like M26).
3) I didn't train or prune the trees carefully, correctly or consistently over several years .(i.e. both in Summer and winter).
4) I never quite made up my mind how tall I wanted the arch to be.

I just randomly bunged in an Ellison's Orange, Discovery, Ida Red and Charles Ross, the first two on MM106 and the last two on M26. The Ellison's grew like stink. The Discovery lost several semi-trained branches to canker. The Ida red became a runt and the Charles Ross cankered out completely after 5 years. The result was, and still is, a mess, so I'm probably not the best person to offer advice!

[FB.]

......so I'm probably not the best person to offer advice.....

On the contrary: others can learn from what you've said and avoid making the same mistakes.

The really interesting thing is that in my dry-ish region, I found Ellison's to be very prone to severe canker (but resistant to scab and mildew), while Discovery does not suffer from canker, scab or mildew.

Reminds me of yummersetter who can't grow Spartan (but it is disease and pest-free for me) while Kidd's Orange Red can be very prone to canker here (but is disease free for yummersetter).

Soil quality (depth, fertility), climate (temperature, rainfall, length of growing season), local strains of pests and diseases, and local experience make a big difference.

[FB.]

I would like to grow an apple arch,any advice.I live in Fife.What would be the best rootstock to use?Would I need an arch to grow them up or could they just be supported by strong stakes until they grow enough to tie together?

How deep is your soil, and how fertile is it?
I presume rainfall (hence availability of moisture) is not a problem in most years.
What kind of growing season do you have? Is it average, or is it somewhat short, cool and dull?

Depending on your soil, your climate, and the growth rate of the varieties chosen, I would choose one or more of the following rootstocks:
M26 (very cold-hardy but may need permanent staking)
MM106 (doesn't tolerate extremes of wet or dry soil)
MM111 (tolerates punishing conditions where other apple rootstocks will not grow)
M25 (not for areas with cool/short growing seasons or harsh winters)

Although M25 and MM111 are considered to be "full size" rootstocks, sometimes they are useful for boosting slow-growing varieties (for example: boundtothesoil suggested that Idared was a slow grower), and also for more difficult soils and climates.

[pwlynch]

Thanks for the replies.Our growing season is average for Scotland,certainly won't be as long as the south of England.Our soil is clay,but I have worked hard over the years to break it down and enrich it.The trees would be going into land which is grass at the moment so it would be starting from scratch.The rootstocks are something that seems quite confusing to me,not sure what to use.

[yummersetter]

Have you decided yet which apples you want? Dessert > red and shiny / russet / modern / antique or maybe cider or a cooker? Just two trees or would it be deeper than that?

And for FB. . . Ellison's Orange - clean as a whistle here.

[FB.]

Thanks for the replies.Our growing season is average for Scotland,certainly won't be as long as the south of England.Our soil is clay,but I have worked hard over the years to break it down and enrich it.The trees would be going into land which is grass at the moment so it would be starting from scratch.The rootstocks are something that seems quite confusing to me,not sure what to use.

Most people would probably suggest MM106 and I'd probably agree (although I always have reservations about using MM106.

If it was me, I'd consider:
MM111 rootstock.
Varieties which aren't too vigorous.
No feeding.
No watering.
Retain grass cover up to the trunk (but don't strim near the trunk or the bark will be damaged).

Maybe varieties thought to grow well in Scotland, such as:
Discovery, Egremont Russet, Falstaff, Grenadier, Reverend Wilks, Scrumptious

You would be best with one-year maidens because two-year-olds will not have been trained into a suitable shape and could be difficult to re-train without a lot of work.

You could also consider the "ballerina" types of apple. These tend to grow in a mostly column-shaped, upright form, with only a few side branches forming.

[BUFFS]

we found that james grieve produces well and not too fussy about the summer and the wet west coast summer and the bramley is happy as larry.....

[orangepippin]

Just following up boundtothesoil's point 4 ... how high (and wide) do you want the arch to be. The answer to this will determine which rootstock to use to achieve the size you require.