Ideas needed for DIY Arbour planting (Roses, Pansies and fruit trees)

[DuncanM]

Hi all,

I'm after some advice please. I'm going to be constructing an arbour that I've designed in memory of someone incredibly close to me.
I've attached a rough design, but to describe it verbally, it's going to have a central arbour (walk through arch) with a 2 height step lattice either side. I want to train roses over the arbour and probably the frame work for the step lattices, with the lattices themselves being filled with trained fruit trees. I'm not sure if it'll be possible to fill the bottom lattices in a diamond shape lattice given the small height, so I haven't finally confirmed what I will be putting there yet.
The two larger lattices I've thought would be nice to have pears (I was originally thinking apples, but I already have 9 of them in the garden and 14 at the allotment) so pears would be a nice change, or possibly even a cherry (I know they might not be suitable for a diamond shape).

My questions:

a) What rootstock do you advise for the two larger trellis/lattice sections? And how many actual trees would I need? I'd like the final trained shape to be as close-knit diamond as possible, but I realise this goes against the advice of giving them room. The larger lattices will be 1mx1m.

b) What fruit trees (or something edible for that matter) can you suggest for the smaller trellis/lattice sections? Again I'd like to, as much as possible maintain a diamond pattern to keep with the whole theme the same across the full structure. I'd prefer something trained.

I know it's coming to the end of the planting season, I won't be planting this spring, as I need to finish the patio to which the arbour structure will seperate. I'll spend the summer constructing and installing the lattice and then I'll want to begin planting in earnest in the dormant season over winter. I'm asking now because any advice I receive might get me to adapt some parts of the design.

If possible, I would also like to plant the bottom with pansies, however if too detrimental to the nutrients the fruit trees need I can keep them
limited to the footings of the main arbour where the roses will be planted.

Key
Blue dots = pansies
Orange crosses = where climbing roses will be planted. I might not need the two on the ends, and instead branch out the two plants climbing up the arbour.
green + red = roses
A = large lattice sections, 1mx1m
B = smaller lattice sections, 1mx60cm

The arbour will be about 40-60cm deep.

Also forgot to mention this will be running East,South-East to West,North-West in full sun.



Thanks all

[veggiechicken]

Its a lovely idea Duncan. Could you use those stepover fruit trees to create your lattices. Perhaps 2 planted in an X shape? You need the fruit experts' advice on sizes as I haven't a clue.

[DuncanM]

Hi VC,
I was hoping for more of a lattice shape than just an X, or do you mean 2 X's per 'A'?

[veggiechicken]

Just wondered whether you could then train the side branches into the lattice shapes?

[Linnea]

hi Duncan

I'm no fruit expert but my first question would be...What is you soil like? it may determine which is the better rootstock for what you want, as in very poor soil a more vigorous rootstock might be needed to get the tree going. my soil is incredibly sandy so doesn't hold water or nutrient well therefore I needed a middling rootstock to get a cordon

Apologies for the ramble. I'm sure the fruit experts will be along soon!

[chris]

I am doing similar (though not stepped latices - good idea, might steal it ) - I'll be planting an apricot and peach, training them as fans to cover the main sections, then Glen Coe as a clump of raspberries t'other side, then some clematis, perhaps another climbing rose and then season stuff to grow up it too (squash, for example)

[DuncanM]

My soil is quite sandy, but I have plenty of loamier stuff laying around to make it better quality. I'd say it was average quality with good drainage.

I did think maybe 3 pear trees per 'A'. 1 on the left, forming an upright, and then one branch coming out diagonally, one in the middle have one going at a 45 degree angle left, one at a 45 degree angle right, then 1 on the right forming an upright with a branch coming back left at 45 degrees. But I don't know if 3 plants in a metre of each other will be a problem or not. Then again if it restricts the growth it won't be so much of a problem as long as they get to the small size I need.

See image for what I mean:

[Linnea]

soil sounds good. as much organic matter in there prior to planting to hold onto water.
If I understand the possible plan of 3 in a meter (to create an M shape) I think would be too close. quince A rootstock spacing for cordons is 75cm apart. putting them closer may limit growth but would also increase difficulties with pruning and pest/disease control. Rookstock quince C would give you smaller growth habit therefore they may cope with the closer spacing a little better. although the same spacing is recommended.
hope that helps a bit

[veggiechicken]

My soil is quite sandy, but I have plenty of loamier stuff laying around to make it better quality. I'd say it was average quality with good drainage.

I did think maybe 3 pear trees per 'A'. 1 on the left, forming an upright, and then one branch coming out diagonally, one in the middle have one going at a 45 degree angle left, one at a 45 degree angle right, then 1 on the right forming an upright with a branch coming back left at 45 degrees. But I don't know if 3 plants in a metre of each other will be a problem or not. Then again if it restricts the growth it won't be so much of a problem as long as they get to the small size I need.

See image for what I mean:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]34610[/ATTACH]

OR 2 trees, one at each corner, trained on a diagonal to cross each other and each with 2 pairs of side branches, one pair below, and one pair above the cross over point.

[DuncanM]

I think I have decided what I will plant on the small 'B' trellis sections.

Dictamnus albus a.k.a. the burning bush:

The interesting (and exciting) bit is that the white flowers produce a fragrant, volatile oil which can be ignited on a hot still day leaving the plant uninjured.

Seen as the whole setup is in honour of a man who loved bonfires I think this is perfect. 2 per side should fit perfectly.

Still unsure about the number of fruit trees (probably pear) to use for the 'A' sections. Hoping OrangePippin or FB will come along with their excellent advice soon

[FB.]

I would think semi-dwarfing rootstocks such as:
M9 or M26 (apple)
Quince C (pear)
VVA-1 or Pixy (plum)
Gisela 5 (cherry)

If you're worried about nearby plants (or grass) stealing the nutrients from the fruit trees and affecting their growth, consider going up one rootstock size and it'll compensate.
MM106 (apple)
Quince A (pear)
St.Julien A (plum)
Colt (cherry)

[FB.]

The biggest factor is the amount of rainfall or the ability of the soil to hold moisture during the drier months of summer.
Even dwarfs will cope with being grown in grass if there is plenty of water available to them - a plant is mostly water, so give it plenty of water (not to the point of drowing it!) and it'll be "mostly" happy!

The variety you choose will also have an effect: some varieties grow much faster than others. Bramley and certain other triploids will produce so much growth hormone that they will make the rootstock behave as if it's one or even two size classes larger. Bramley on "medium vigour" M116 or MM106 will behave like an average variety on "very vigorous" M25.
Tip-bearers are more difficult to control as highly trained forms.

For a rather formal trellis and the size you want - assuming average soil - I would be cautious of using the medium vigour (QA, MM106, SJA, Colt) as they might be too vigorous. I think I'd play it safe so as not to have to spend many hours per year fighting their vigour.

So in your instance, I'd prefer M26, Quince C, Pixy, Gisela 5. Growth and nutrients can be boosted by lightly sprinkling mulch in the autumn and again in late winter (it's fine to use a semi-confluent mulch on grass as the grass will grow through it).

Have a read-up on Belgain Fence espaliers. If you plant that closely, unless the soil is very poor I'd definitely not go any stronger than M26/QC/Pixy/G5!