Redlove Apple

[wildinthecountry]

Can anyone help please? I've received a 'pot luck' fruit tree from Dobies which turned out to be Redlove apple. I've planted it on the edge of a new orchard I'm creating next to our very ancient one. I chose the other trees carefully from Keepers nursery as I wanted old varieties, Cornish Aromatic, Clopton Red, Honey Pippin, Orleans Reinette, William Crump etc. I've read things about Redlove being genetically modified and wonder if this will affect my other trees. Or even the native wood we planted many years ago though this is some distance away! I noticed FB was very knowledgeable about this apple, wonder if he's still about. Or anyone who can help please? Good to join a great forum. Thanks!

[chris]

Where did you read Red Love was a GM apple? I thought it took years of breeding to create it?

[FB.]

The quick answer:
Don't worry about it - carry on and treat the tree like any other (assuming the rootstock is up to the task you expect it to perform).

The long answer:

I don't think Redlove is genetically modified - it's just been selectively bred through multiple crosses of specific varieties.
I don't see a problem with planting Redlove along with other trees if that's what you want. Besides: what if someone near to you was growing a genetically-modified apple and the bees happened to cross-pollinate your trees? There wouldn't be much you could do to stop the GM plant transferring its pollen into the gene pool.
My main concern about Redlove would be whether its selective breeding means any disease resistance it has won't last long "in the real world", and whether it was bred for the perfect soils of orchard conditions rather than the mediocre or poor soils found in gardens or amateur situations.
If Redlove - or any other inbred or modern commercial-type variety - proves to have weak resistance to disease, it might become sickly and act as a reservoir of disease which could spread to other trees. However, many of the rare old heritage varieties have exceptional resistance and tolerance (only the toughest have survived through the centuries!), so often they don't care if sickly trees are nearby as they just shrug-off the disease attacks.

[FB.]

However, many of the rare old heritage varieties have exceptional resistance and tolerance (only the toughest have survived through the centuries!), so often they don't care if sickly trees are nearby as they just shrug-off the disease attacks.

Further to this: I've been growing a number of "old-timer" triploids in recent years and they are virtually indestructible; magnificently resilient.
I've even been trialling the so-called disease-prone "old-timer" triploid Gravenstein but have found it to be as rugged and disease resistant as my other triploids - and it's really thriving in the cold, dull, damp weather these last couple of years.

[wildinthecountry]

Many thanks, great to hear advice from an expert - saves me digging it up straight away! Our original orchard is indeed always disease free, or has been since we came nearly 20yrs ago, we never spray and I'm afraid to say rarely prune except to tidy up and shape. I'd love to get some identification but maybe just be grateful for very good cookers. I planted old varieties partly as I hoped, like our house, they had stood the test of time, also I remember the taste of some from our days on the family fruit farm in Kent. The old orchard is getting shaded by a row of limes planted by our predecessor as wind shelter, now huge which is a worry. Thanks again.

[wildinthecountry]

PS Thanks Chris, just came across several refs. to Redlove being GM when I googled it. Probably all just gossip!

[FB.]

Having noticed your location is "East Anglia", I would suggest you seriously consider the MM111 rootstock as a substitute for the widely-used MM106 because of MM106's erratic performance in soils which dry out in summer (a common problem in the usually-dry summers of East Anglia).
M25 is also a good rootstock; despite its high intrinsic vigour it probably won't be much more vigorous than MM111 in this area because of MM111's better tolerance of drier conditions.

[FB.]

Having noticed your location is "East Anglia", I would suggest you seriously consider the MM111 rootstock as a substitute for the widely-used MM106 because of MM106's erratic performance in soils which dry out in summer (a common problem in the usually-dry summers of East Anglia).
M25 is also a good rootstock; despite its high intrinsic vigour it probably won't be much more vigorous than MM111 in this area because of MM111's better tolerance of drier conditions.

Not only is this from unfortunate personal experience, but also from the unfortunate experiences of many East Anglian community orchards whose trees on MM106 have quite often been unsatisfactory performers.
Additionally, a plant scientist named Parry, working for the Malling/Merton research stations, reported in 1965 that:
"MM106, generally classed as semi-dwarfing, gives much less vigorous scion trees on dry than on humid sites in comparison with other rootstocks".

M9 (dwarf) or MM111 (vigorous) are the best choices for East Anglia (or other dry sandy or chalky soils).

[yummersetter]

I have Redlove Circe, bought when I was planning a 'Red Apple' zone in a newly planted orchard. I haven't heard of it being GM at all.
Its a pretty little thing, red leaves and dark pink flowers at this time - designed to be decorative in a back garden, I think. The apples haven't great flavour but look good on the tree - I see no harm in leaving it unless every tree has to earn its keep and be sensible



oops, hadn't checked the sharpness - still it will give you an idea of how it looks!

[FB.]

The apples haven't great flavour but look good on the tree - I see no harm in leaving it unless every tree has to earn its keep and be sensible

Different climates and soils can change the flavour of some varieties - and the pest/disease tolerance - so it can sometimes be a case of having to actually try a variety (or rootstock) before reaching a conclusion about how suited it is to certain areas.
The usually-dry and mild climate combined with considerable autumn sunshine of East Anglia (drier, milder and sunnier autumns than most parts of the country) definitely puts a different slant on apple flavours along with increasing the sugars in the really-late-ripening varieties (many of which will not ripen properly elsewhere, such as D'Arcy Spice, Golden Delicious, Barnack Beauty).

[orangepippin]

Red Love is a brand or trademark, and there are several *different* varieties (with different characteristics) being sold, e.g. Circe, Era etc. I assume they have a common parentage.

I don't think they will have disease problems as FB suggests can be the case with some modern varieties, because by definition they have a distinctly different pedigree.

However it is worth noting that historically the red-pigmentation that is present in the apple genome has gone hand in hand with relatively poor flavours and generally early or mid-season ripening, and many red-fleshed varieties are not particularly healthy. The challenge is to blend the red-fleshed characteristic with some other apple such as Golden Delicious that has a pleasant flavour and good horticultural qualities. Maybe Lubera, the developers of the Red Love range, have pulled this off -hopefully in a year or so you will find out!

My favourite red-fleshed variety is Rosette, which is very similar to Discovery - not the greatest flavour as an eating apple, but the juice quality is excellent, and also a pretty pink colour.

[wildinthecountry]

Having noticed your location is "East Anglia", I would suggest you seriously consider the MM111 rootstock as a substitute for the widely-used MM106 because of MM106's erratic performance in soils which dry out in summer (a common problem in the usually-dry summers of East Anglia).
M25 is also a good rootstock; despite its high intrinsic vigour it probably won't be much more vigorous than MM111 in this area because of MM111's better tolerance of drier conditions.

Oh dear! They are all on M106 except Cornish Aromatic (currently the only one in blossom, all planted 2yrs ago) which is on M26. I have no idea what rootstock Redlove is on.

[wildinthecountry]

Thank you so much 'All' for your help. Yes it's Redlove Circe, I did wonder if the flavour was up to much but glad you say it's a pretty tree because I've put it in a prominent position on the edge of the orchard and at least we'll be able to look at it!

[digon]

PS Thanks Chris, just came across several refs. to Redlove being GM when I googled it. Probably all just gossip!

I've just done some searching and all I could find where references to Redlove being an example of what can be achieved without going down the GM route. Eg. Views and Opinions

My Redlove Era tree is so different from my other fruit trees not only because of the very distinctive fruit, but also because of the maroon coloured foliage and bark and the deep pink blossom.
I think it is such a good looking tree that I am transferring my M9 Era to an M116 rootstock along with Circe to make a standard or half standard centre piece for my front lawn. My intention is to collect the other Redlove varieties as they become available and graft them all onto the one tree.
I had thought about grafting other red apples as well but the Redlove foliage and blossom is so distinctive that I dismissed the idea as it would look odd.

The only problems I've had to date is greenfly a couple of weeks ago. Strangely I only found them on the Redlove and not on the neighbouring the trees. I put it down to the fact that the greenfly stand out like a sore thumb against the maroon foliage whereas I probably couldn't find them camouflaged against the green leaves of the other trees.

[orangepippin]

The red colour is an anthocynanin pigment, which is unusual in mainstream apples, but very common in ornamental crab apples (which of course explains the potential challenges if you want to develop an apple that is also nice to eat). It can be present within the stem, leaves, and blossom as well.

Have a look at the Diversity website for a comprehensive list of red-fleshed apples:
red-fleshed apples, DIVERSITY website, pictures of apples