How many trees?

[robfosters]

At the end of this year we want to start growing apples.

There are 4 of us in the family and we have room for either one large tree (MM106) or a couple of M9's.

I've not mentioned M26's as I have heard they are not great rootstocks. I don't know how true that is.

Would a pair of M9's, say a gala and a red windsor, produce a good amount of fruit for us each year.

[FB.]

Who said M26 is a bad rootstock and who said MM106 is a good rootstock?

There's only one rootstock which I would never use again: MM106.
I've lost so many trees on MM106 (and have so many others which have runted-out and struggle to either grow or crop) that it's not even funny.
Many East-of-England community orchards have also been finding out MM106's weaknesses the hard way; many of their (and my) MM106's which were supposed to become half-standards or standards are either dead or runted-out at the size of a rose bush.

I would use M116 or MM111 as near-substitutes; both are far more rugged, reliable and disease-resistant than MM106.

Below is a picture of a ten-year-old MM106 Laxton's Superb lovingly fed, watered and weeded all around (Laxton's usually being a particularly fast-growing variety). The "tree" is about 4-5ft and very straggly and is so weak that its life hangs by ropes to the fence post behind. Many of my other MM106's are similarly poor-performing.
The second picture is a three-year-old MM111 looking much more feisty and "fit for purpose" despite having grass all the way up to the trunk and competing fiercely with its roots - it is being trained as a "half-standard" with 4-5ft clear trunk:

[FB.]

The following picture is just one of my now-dead MM106's, showing the all-too-common death of the lower trunk caused by root-rotting fungi gradually killing the roots and eventually spreading to the trunk.
The disease is called "crown rot" and is caused by Phytopthora fungi. Normally they require saturated soil to attack apple trees, but MM106 is so easily infected and unable to fight back that any soil conditions can allow trees to succumb to crown rot - often about age 3-5, just as the tree begins to crop heavily.

I have lost large numbers of MM106's to this disease, also some M25's, but never a M116, MM111, M26, M27 or M9. I've planted M116's and MM111's straight into the hole where a dead MM106 was dug out, with no disease nor replant problems. In fact, the very happy and healthy MM111 shown above sits in the very hole where this now-dead MM106 came out.
I've never had a MM106 recover, but have had some M25's recover on account of M25's great vigour often allowing it to outgrow whatever attacks it.

[robfosters]

Cheers for your help mate.

So basically, M26's and M9's are good rootstocks?

[orangepippin]

In any given amount of space M9, trained as a spindlebush and supported by a permanent stake, is likely to be more productive than M26 - but keep it well watered and remove weeds and grass etc.

If you have space for 1 x MM106 you might even squeeze in 3 x M9.

Gala has an excellent flavour when home grown, but it is a bit disease-prone (if you intend growing without chemicals). Red Windsor is a good choice. Since you are in Kent, most varieties should be possible.

[robfosters]

Since you are in Kent, most varieties should be possible.

What about my favourite, Red Delicious?

[FB.]

I think you'd be able to grow (say) four M9's as bushes around the edge of the canopy spread of a M116/MM106/MM111.
The smaller M9's could be early-ripening varieties or cookers, while the main tree could be a late-ripening eater or dual-purpose with long storage qualities.

My M9's (Beauty of Bath, Blenheim Orange and Grenadier, from memory) are all unsupported minarettes. M9 is stable enough to be without staking if grown without too much high-up topweight, but they are easy to pull out of the ground by hand, even after having been in place for a few years.
The poorer the soil, the smaller the tree and the bigger its roots. So M9 is indeed quite small in my low-fertility soil, but as a consequence it has a relatively small part above-ground compared to the roots, so is better able to support itself.
M9 - like MM111 - is notably tolerant of drought; their performance is relatively less affected than other rootstocks. MM106 is very unhappy in droughts.

[FB.]

Cheers for your help mate.

So basically, M26's and M9's are good rootstocks?

Yes, M9 and M26 are good rootstocks.
Note that dwarf rootstocks (M27, M9, M26) tend to form a large swelling at the graft, which sometimes detracts from their visual attractiveness.
Planting dwarfs with the graft close to the ground will mostly hide the effect, but beware that if the graft becomes buried by mulches, soil or leaf litter, that the piece above the graft may (after a year or two) send out its own roots and as a result become more vigorous - equivalent to M116-MM111 or even M25 in the case of triploids which manage to own-root.
More vigorous rootstocks (M116, MM106, MM111, M25) don't tend to have a noticeable graft after they mature.
Pictures below of the typical appearance of dwarf graft unions:
1. M9 (dwarf)
2. M26 (semi-dwarf)
3. MM106 (semi-vigorous) (bark often peels off the rootstock piece above-ground when a tree approaches ten years old - it seems to be quite a normal occurrence and the tree continues to behave normally)

[FB.]

What about my favourite, Red Delicious?

You have a good chance of growing it successfully in Kent, as long as you can give it a warm sunny position. Finding a supplier might not be so easy. I would be careful with Gala as it can be quite prone to diseases in some areas. I would suggest growing varieties which are never or only very rarely found in shops; you get to taste flavours you'd never encounter otherwise, and the non-shop varieties tend to be much better suited to home-growers who don't want to spray.

If you planted a Red Delicious (or other "foreign" variety) is in a cool, part-shaded position it may behave oddly - such as not flowering, or producing small, low-quality fruit.
Quite likely, growing "foreign" (warmer-climate) varieties would work best with the relatively dwarfing rootstocks because of better sunlight penetration into their smaller canopies.

[robfosters]

Yes, I think you're right. Top Red Delicious apples are freely available at a low price, so it is probably a waste of time growing one.

Back to square one with the varieties. There are so many, it's a nightmare to pick 2.

[FB.]

There are so many, it's a nightmare to pick 2.

I'd suggest start with an idea of how you plan to lay out your trees (you don't fancy four M9's surrounding a MM111?), how big you want them to be, decide how good you think the soil is (how deep the topsoil and what type of subsoil - such as clay, chalk, sand-gravel), then choose a spread of varieties and rootstocks which will grow well in your soil and will meet your needs for cropping season etc.
Certain varieties (and rootstocks) perform particularly well in certain climates and certain soil types - and certain soil types present specific challenges or benefits to the would-be fruit grower.

If you only have space for a couple of small-medium trees, why not grow a line of a dozen cordons or minarettes on M9 or M26? You can then taste a variety of flavours and have a long cropping season.

[21again]

Does anyone know what the rootstock is for Braeburn apple trees from Aldi please? I have just potted one in a builders bucket for now, I will repot when it starts to outgrow it.

It does have the size that the tree grows to on the label but I have mislaid it.

Ta.

[21again]

Does anyone know what the rootstock is for Braeburn apple trees from Aldi please? I have just potted one in a builders bucket for now, I will repot when it starts to outgrow it.

It does have the size that the tree grows to on the label but I have mislaid it.

Ta.

It's ok, I just found some details saying they are mostly MM106 or M26 which they say grow to about 8' to 12'.

[FB.]

Does anyone know what the rootstock is for Braeburn apple trees from Aldi please? I have just potted one in a builders bucket for now, I will repot when it starts to outgrow it.

It does have the size that the tree grows to on the label but I have mislaid it.

Ta.

As you already found out: MM106 is the most common rootstock sold to the public, usually with a size guide around 3-5 metres - but the variety grafted makes a difference (e.g. Bramley will often make a larger-than-expected tree), and MM106 is very variable in different growing conditions (as I've said before: MM106 is the most drought-susceptible rootstock commonly available, so it can be much smaller than expected on drier/lighter soils).
I have no trouble keeping MM106 to 1.5m in size on account of my light soil.

[21again]

Many thanks for the info.