Sick Damson Tree

[diyhouse]

I'm pretty sure I have a damson tree, small black fruit about an inch long,.. ( yes,.. I am not a rocket scientist in the garden ).
Anyway, my damson tree,.. for some reason seems to be suffering.
For the past couple of years it has failed to bare fruit of any kind,.. this is probably linked to the fact it has never budded very well either,.. so I guess the two are connected... initially I thought/hoped it was just a one off, but this seems not to be the case.

Go back 3 or 4 years and the tree produced an abundance of fruit,.. great in chutney etc,

Also new yearly growth is "sort of deformed",. leaves shrivelled etc.
I have enclosed a picture as this describes the situation much better.

Any guidance gratefully received.

many thanks

[WendyC]

Are there aphids curled up in the leaves? I've virtually no plums this year, due I think to the cold spring and lack of pollinators. It was the same last year. I'm not sure your lack of fruit is connected to the leaf damage but due to weather conditions at the time of flowering.

[diyhouse]

Sick Damson Tree

Wendy,.. Many thanks for replying,..have removed a few "new shoots",.. and discovered potentially unwelcome guests ( aphids maybe ),.... rather than describe them... pictures attached, as they save a 1000 words as they say...
The shrivelled leaves,.. which I assume ( pls correct if wrong ) is where the unwelcome guests have been living.

The curled / shrivelled leaves have a dry texture,..

Kind Regards

[rustylady]

Your pictures are really blurry, but they do look like aphids.

[WendyC]

The leaves are dry because aphids suck the sap. They love new growth as it is really juicy! If the tree is growing well they usually shrug them off. You could jet them off with the hose if you think they are a problem. Sulphate of potash is sometimes recommended to promote flowering ( and therefore hopefully fruiting) no idea on quantity as would depend on the size of the tree. Might be worth a go!

[diyhouse]

Sorry,.. I appreciate picture quality not brilliant, ( they just would not stay still :-) ) ,.. but I assumed they would be good enough to identify,.. so many thanks rusty lady,.. now I know what he critters are, and WendyC confirms.
With regards removal,.. is there a proven safe method of removal. I can spray the entire tree if required,... the only fall-out of water would be on to some Rhubarb.
I guess this years flowering/fruiting is a lost cause,.. but what can I do to prep for next year in respect to getting rid of the little critters... just spray with sulphate of postash

[WendyC]

Sorry didn't make myself clear. Sulphate of potash is a feed you can either apply to the soil around the root area in the dry form and water in, or mix with water and apply as a root drench.

[FB.]

It looks to me as if:

1. The tree is being looked after so well (or is in soil so good), that it is doing what all trees are programmed to do: grow as much as possible to become as big and strong as possible (in order to ensure its sheer size can help can fend-off competition from other plants nearby), and will only produce fruit after attaining a great size or when the soil fertility declines so that it can no longer grow rapidly.

2. The over-vigorous growth of an over-happy/over-fed/over-watered tree is encouraging aphids to feed on the masses of tender young leaves.

[diyhouse]

FB,... Your comments are very interesting,.. as a couple of years ago I "pruned" the tree,.. severely!!
Basically the tree was getting to big for its location,.. ( I,.. did not plant it) too close to the house etc,.. It was blocking light to a bedroom,.. and the way it had grown one of its major limbs was in danger of breaking off and falling onto the property,... So I pruned the potentially 5 inch diameter suspect branch/limb off. This probably reduced the "volume" of the tree to 2/3 of its original size.
And Yes although brutal it did secure the life of the overall tree as otherwise I would have been forced to remove it completely. ( and we do like the fruit it bares,.. and the chutney and other stuff we get from it.)
Also,.. the soil the tree lives in I am told is very good...

Wendyc,.. sorry my misunderstanding,... as I said I am not rocket scientist when it comes to the garden,... I will look to get some sulphate of potash,.. and water in...

Will these steps improve things for next years fruit.... I assume the Sulphate of potash makes the tree taste nasty to aphids.... So would I need to do this again next year prior to flowering/budding.

Many thanks for the comments guys,.. I was at a real loss,.. ( no idea when it comes to anything green )

[FB.]

a couple of years ago I "pruned" the tree,.. severely!!

Ah - not having the full picture can cause mis-diagnosis of problems. Having your location in your profile is useful because soils and climates vary widely across the UK.

If you pruned the tree hard, it will have a lot more roots than shoots, causing an imbalance of hormones coming up from the roots which "supercharge" the growth of the canopy and prevent the formation of flower buds until the roots and shoots are back into balance (or until sufficient roots have died/been killed such that the roots no longer provide an overload of nutrients).
The lush new growth then attracts aphids to feed on the plentiful sap within the vigorous-growing shoots.

The bottom line is that, as is common for fruit trees: it was allowed to get far too big before any pruning work was undertaken, then it responded badly to the drastic hard pruning.
Pruning is best done annually - little and often rather than occasional drastic pruning. Neglecting pruning doesn't actually save much time in the long run and often results in trees which either die from shock or become difficult to manage and stop cropping as a result of over-vigorous new growth.

If you can take some pictures of the whole tree from different angles, it might be possible to work out a plan on how to get it back under control and get it back into fruiting.

[diyhouse]

FB,.. a couple of pictures of the entire tree....
Your info is very informative,.. I see where your coming from and how the balance of the tree has been affected.
I did some yearly pruning, ( but clearly not enough).. but the tree was becoming a risk to the adjoining property,... and as the one limb was not very strong,.. and when the entire tree was covered in snow etc,.. it definitely creaked under the strain.
Any advice you can offer as how to fix its desire to grow rather than produce fruit would be very gratefully received.
Regards

[FB.]

If it was my tree, I'd literally take the top half of the canopy off in the next week or two, which should get rid of most of the "watershoots" which are growing virtually straight upwards.

Upright shoots are vigorous and unfruitful. Horizontal through to 45-degree angled branches/shoots will be the most productive in future years.

The first picture below indicates with a yellow line, the more upright shoots which I would remove entirely within the next two weeks; cutting them off at their point of origin. I would leave the lower half of the canopy mostly untouched.

The second picture below is admittedly a sketch regarding apple trees, but shows the shape of a well-cropping fruit tree, which is normally when the tree is wider than it is high (silhouette resembling a mushroom), with upright shoots removed each year in order to keep vigour under control and to keep it directing its energy towards fruit production on the more horizontal branches.

[FB.]

-

And from the other angle, a rough guide line of the space to contain it within - subject to making a nice tidy job of it.
Make sure you spend at least fifteen minutes looking carefully at where the branches are and planning what you're going to do before you start.
The best pruning techniques are those which use as few cuts as possible (so no shears or hedge trimmers!) and where pruning wounds will be no larger than three-quarters of an inch (2 centimetres) in diameter in order to avoid wounds so large that they may never heal and may become infected with diseases.
That's not to say that large pruning cuts should never be made because sometimes it's necessary - but just note that the bigger the pruning cut the longer the wound will take to heal and the greater the risk of complications with that wound. Sometimes a two-inch wound will heal just fine, but at other times even a small-ish quarter-inch wound can let in diseases. But the few cuts, the less wounds, and the less wounds the less opportunities for diseases to attack.
However, with all that whippy top growth I suspect you're going to have to make quite a lot of pruning cuts!
Fortunately the tree is growing well, which helps tremendously for quicker healing of wounds and less chance of infection.

-

[diyhouse]

FB,.. have not forgotten my over grown Damson tree, ( some busy weekends etc.)... have taken your advise and further trimmed tree as best I can/could.
Have trimmed all the vertical rising shoots and created a better mushroom shaped tree.
I have created some gaps in the profile,.. but decided these were preferable to the long term stability of the tree, and they should ( I hope ) fill in over the coming years to come.
The tree has born some fruit even this year, although not as much as previous years.

Now the tree is 'fully trimmed',.. what will prevent it from growing again like fury vertically upwards,.. how would I control next years growth,.. or should I.

Picture included of pruned tree, Your thoughts...

Many thanks