Planned Orchard/Fruits Plot

[leonmc0708]

I have got a third plot which I have cleared and covered in blackness for the time being whilst I allow the weeds to die and my mind to work out what to do with hte space.

I don't have any fruit (apart from the odd strawberry) in my other plots other than some blueberries, blackberries and raspberries that are being grown in containers for now until I work out where they need to go on the new site.

Anyway enough about my life story ! reason for the post is I would welcome ideas/suggestions/pointers/warnings etc on the prospect of getting some long term fruit residents on the new plot.

thanks in advance

[orangepippin]

Dwarf apple trees on M27 rootstocks are an excellent option for long-term fruit production on the plot, and being only 5ft high, are very plot-friendly and should not shade neighbouring plots. You can plant them around 1m apart if you want to maximise the space.

[binley100]

Think about permaculture planting with a sort of tiered effect planting......fruit trees, fruit bushes then ground cover......maximise your productivity rather than having a field of grass around the trees.

[FB.]

I would upgrade the rootstock on apple trees to at least M9 and probably M26 if no spraying is to be performed.
Aphids alone (not to mention other leaf-munching pests or diseases) take a huge toll on the vigour of young fruit trees and dwarfs can easily be crippled without lots of feeding, watering and spraying. This year, being mild and dry, even my big M25 and MM111 trees have been brought to their knees by lack of water and a huge aphid attack which has scarcely left a leaf undamaged - basically it's looking like this year will result in no net gain in size for many of my trees even on the full-size rootstocks, due to the extreme aphid damage.

Quite a few of the young stems on my fruit trees (and of other people I know) have been killed entirely by the toxic saliva of the aphids, while some other aphid-damaged stems are dying-back and appear to have become cankered and need removing which will mean the tree might start 2014 smaller than it started 2013!
My pears on supposedly-mighty seedling rootstocks are almost dead now; probably beyond salvage - and most will be removed this winter.
My apples on MM106 have very small fruit - much of which they begun to drop under drought stress until the rain came a few days ago.

So bear in mind that dwarfs need attention and even vigorous trees can be brought to a dead stop in bad years if they aren't given the protection of sprays.

[FB.]

Think about permaculture planting with a sort of tiered effect planting......fruit trees, fruit bushes then ground cover......maximise your productivity rather than having a field of grass around the trees.

I tried that, but found that currants and raspberries are much faster-growing than even the vigorous-rootstock fruit trees, with the result that the apple/pear trees get smothered. My raspberries can easily reach 6-8ft tall in one season; young currant bushes often add 2-3ft of growth. Apple trees in the same soil grow about 1ft per year.

Fruit trees, even on vigorous rootstocks, are much less vigorous than we're led to believe - only growing rapidly when sprayed, watered, fed and with no plants competing in their root zone (an area at least 3ft around the trunk kept clear).
The reason why the old "Quincunx" tree layout is common in old orchards is that when first planted, the trees would have been planted on vigorous rootstocks in a grid layout at quite close spacing - say 18ft for most varieties on the vigorous old Crab stock - perhaps with Bulmer's Norman interstems to boost vigour - or planted on vigorous seedlings (the old crab being far more vigorous than anything we have today - much more vigorous than M25 ).
After half a human lifetime the trees would begin to touch (i.e. having averaged less than 1ft of growth each year), so once the trees were touching every second one was removed to leave the quincunx alternating rows. Then the trees would spend another half a lifetime attaining the 36ft spread which was created for them by the removal of every second tree.

My own trees are planted in a similar way - spaced at 8-10ft on MM111 or M25 and alternating trees will be removed if they ever fill the space in the remainder of my lifetime (I'm middle-aged-ish).

[veggiechicken]

All the apple trees here touch - or would have done if they had remained upright! With some of them its hard to tell which apple belongs to which tree.
Going back to the OP, when I had an allotment I spent a lot of money buying soft fruit bushes for it. Circumstances meant I had to give up the plot after a few years but I managed to dig up most of the fruit bushes and find space for them in the garden. I was so relieved that I hadn't bought fruit trees as digging them up may have been difficult, if not impossible. So, speaking as a cheapskate, my advice would be to consider how long you are likely to keep the plot and whether the investment in fruit trees will bring you sufficient return in that time To my mind once planted they are there for keeps Fruit bushes however, are more forgiving!!

[binley100]

Don't forget as well that soft fruit are very easily propogated from cuttings and soon fruit........

[orangepippin]

I would upgrade the rootstock on apple trees to at least M9 and probably M26 if no spraying is to be performed.

Many allotment associations have restrictions on the size of fruit trees, hence I suggested M27 rootstocks because the trees are so small that they do not shade neighbouring plots. Whilst they require a bit more care and attention than more vigorous trees, it's reasonable to assume that anyone running an allotment is an enthusiast and likely to be keen to spend the time necessary to look after them. And to put it into perspective, they require far less effort than typical allotment vegetables such as brassicas or even potatoes.

[FB.]

Many allotment associations have restrictions on the size of fruit trees, hence I suggested M27 rootstocks because the trees are so small that they do not shade neighbouring plots. Whilst they require a bit more care and attention than more vigorous trees, it's reasonable to assume that anyone running an allotment is an enthusiast and likely to be keen to spend the time necessary to look after them. And to put it into perspective, they require far less effort than typical allotment vegetables such as brassicas or even potatoes.

But unsprayed M26 or M9 would probably be reduced to about the same vigour as sprayed/fertigated M27.
So why not plant M26 or M9 and drastically reduce the need for lots of care and sprays?

For what it's worth (off-topic) we find potatoes to be so easy to grow that it's comical - just chuck 'em in a half-filled raised bed of compost, chuck some more compost on top to cover them and fill the bed, then come back three to six months later to dig them up. The spent compost from the raised bed is used as a mulch elsewhere and new compost is added to the bed each spring which seems to avoid replant/crop rotation problems.
We don't bother watering nor weeding the potatoes and we don't even bother earthing-up because any green ones and slug-damaged ones get put in a sack of dry compost for the winter and replanted the next spring.

[orangepippin]

But unsprayed M26 or M9 would probably be reduced to about the same vigour as sprayed/fertigated M27.
So why not plant M26 or M9 and drastically reduce the need for lots of care and sprays?

We never spray our M27 trees.

[FB.]

We never spray our M27 trees.

But how many people have the excellent growing conditions that you're lucky enough to have?

I'm just about to lose a Blenheim bush-tree on M26 - it's suddenly been overwhelmed with lots of canker lesions on the branches, largely due to lack of vigour in the roots in my poor soil.
It sits next to Spartan on M25 and despite Spartan having a reputation for canker and a wet year last year, the Spartan remains completely healthy - as is Jupiter on M25 also healthy on the other side of the Blenheim M26.
I'm actually leaving the Blenheim to see if it will spread the canker to Spartan or Jupiter, to test their resistance; if something dies I have several other trees on MM111/M25 in stock which I can replace it with because I have to keep a stock of spares because so many struggle with my soil/climate.

[orangepippin]

By their nature most allotments tend to be fertile, and tenants are usually enthusiastic and capable gardeners (of if not, there's always plenty of advice from neighbouring plot holders). This is why M27 apple trees are the perfect choice for allotments, because their size makes them unobtrusive and plot-friendly, and the potential disadvantage - a bit more care over soil and watering - is not an issue in an allotment environment.