Fan Training Questions.

[insy]

Hi Everyone,

I've never really trained/pruned or maintained any fruit bushes/trees, just let them grow wild . But I recently seen a few good links to peoples fan trained plums/peaches/nectarines/apples/cherries etc and I'm very tempted myself to give it a try.

How long will it take to get a 2 year old tree established and trained if you kept creeping plants/weeds out so no competition and was well watered/fed on a estimate?

Will it be hard to attempt such training for a novice?

Any tips or tricks on where to plant, how to plant, when to feed/prune, training/wiring techniques?

What is fruit production like on fan trained trees, do they produce good quantities?

Thanks
Sorry for all questions

[Kirk]

Training is a case of some trial and lots of error.
Everyone who has trained a fruit tree had to have a first one.

You can start from a new tree, you could buy one that is pre-trained - well pre-trained to an extent.

You want to construct a frame for them top be trained against.
Many ties a series of rows of strong wire and tie into that.
Part of the reason is that the strong (thick) wire will be around in 25 years time.
You could construct a bamboo frame but bamboo eventually rots, that makes replacing with new bamboo a bit of work.

The traditional frame was against a brick wall in a walled garden. One option is 2 solid uprights, with wirses between tem and train to these. I would suggest a length of wood across the top to maintain seperation - this need not be so substantial as the uprights.

There was a program a couple of day back where someone constructed some bamboo frames between a series of upright posts. Don't think they were for fruit and cannot recall what the program was. Sometime about Thursday.

My advice is to think it out carefully, I have tried and eventually gave up - simply couldn't spend the time required. Training is not a once or twice a year exercise. The RHS have a book called Pruning that gives examples although these days the internet will have a lot.

If you went for two uprights and strong wire then you could train in an Espalier of say 4 tiers. Just a little more obvious where the branches are to go, and may be better for a first go.

[insy]

Thanks for reply .

I know it will be a learning curve i have plenty of books including RHS ones but im not a huge fan of reading books but i will sit down and spend some time being a book worm. I know I'm going to make mistakes throughout the training, but as long as in the end they flower and fruit and look appealing I'm happy.

I will probably experiment on only a couple to start that way if all goes wrong i don't kill an entire collection .

Espaliers did also cross my mind but most the ones i seen over internet don't look as eye catching as the fan trained, I'll have a think abotu that and maybe try 1-2 espaliers as well.

Thanks
Kirk

[Kirk]

For a fan I would tie a number of horizontal wires between 2 good uprights, then tie in some bamboos in the general shape you want to the rear. Then you can train the branches to where the bamboos indicate but without tying branch to bamboo.

The "problem" of a fan is getting the spread of branches and then filling in between the arms a little. I think for a fan trained tree a lot is the selection of the initial tree.

A straight 1 year whip is fairly easy to keep as a central trunk and get horizontal branches off for an espellier. If an apple you could get grafts of other types for each tier. Interesting idea.

The point to remember is they do take work, and time, to get them to the shape you want. I found they have a habit of growing every way except what I wanted them to. Equally I had no real idea what I was doing. But that has never stopped me from blaming the tree.

[insy]

Is there any recommended very detailed books on fan training fruit trees? or fruit pruning training in general if such a book does not exist?

Thanks Kirk

[boundtothesoil]

Will it be hard to attempt such training for a novice?

Not if you follow the copious advice available (e.g. you tube vids etc)! Although there is a bit of initial physical work creating some kind of frame as mentioned above (about 1 hour), you are not going to be pruning the trees continuously throughout the year. Maybe five minutes per tree two or three times a year. Easy-peasy

[Alison]

What type of trees are you planning to train? I've trained apples as espalliers (from one partially trained already) and both apples and pears as cordons (from maiden whips) and I'm getting the hang of it gradually although haven't always got it right (you can tell very quickly as the yield drops off that year if you've cut off too many fruiting spurs etc). I'm also training a cherry and damson as fans. As I don't have a wall I've set up a post and wire support along the fence on one side of the plot and fingers crossed I'll get it right, quite fun really. I also have a quince and another apple I'm keeping as bushes so quite a mix.

[insy]

Thanks

Alison i plan on trying stuff like plums/apples/cherries possibly nectarines/damsons, wanna make a fruit area/plot everything from blackberry/raspberry/gooseberry/strawberry/rhubard and the trained trees etc etc.

Yes i have a sweet tooth

BoundtotheSoil yes i have watched a couple on youtube, look very interesting i use youtube for guidance on most things or if not guidance ideas .

[Alison]

All the trees you mention with the exception of the apples will be great as fans, personally I think that espaliers are better for the apples. If you get all those fruiting well then you'll have a great crop

[insy]

Alison you know of any real good fruit training/pruning/cultivation books for a good read?

[Alison]

I've used a variety including stuff on the internet. To be honest, some of them seem to contradict others so in the end I find you have to make a decision and go with it even if it seems a bit brutal. I keep meaning to go on a course to learn how to do it properly, even booked on one earlier this year but it got cancelled at the last minute .

[insy]

For the espalier apple trees.

What rootstock would you use?
What distance would you give between each espalier in the row?
What distance between each row?

You got any pictures of your espalier in progress for me to dribble over.

Thanks.

[insy]

Well a family member today found a book for sale at just £1 and I must say I'm very grateful they picked it up, its very very detailed book on everything fruit with detailed write ups on all the different fruits and step by step progressions pictures on how to create and prune everything from bush/cordon/fan/espaliers...

Have information on root stocks, how to create drainage for orchards etc etc.

Book is RHS Fruit - Harry Baker

Going to be a good read .