Orchard layout questions

[Sylvan]

We have more than enough space for 2 or 3 times as many apples, if only we could afford them.

The crabs are for wind protection and (possibly) eventually firewood. We were originally intending a line of 10, 8ft apart, till we decided to intersperse them with cherry plums. I thought wild crabs would be as tough as old boots and any extra help with pollination is always welcome. They're up there because they're shorter than cherries or pears but if they're likely to do more harm than good we can always put them further away and stick a line of wild pear or hawthorn up there instead. How far away would they need to go?

In that case are my own root seedling apples likely to be a problem as well?

[boundtothesoil]

We have more than enough space for 2 or 3 times as many apples, if only we could afford them.

The crabs are for wind protection and (possibly) eventually firewood. ..... but if they're likely to do more harm than good we can always put them further away and stick a line of wild pear or hawthorn up there instead. How far away would they need to go?

In that case are my own root seedling apples likely to be a problem as well?

I didn't mean to cause panic regarding crab apples and disease. It's just that they aren't particularly useful within a large orchard, in my opinion. I don't know whether you are intending to sell fruit from your orchard, e.g. to local shops or at farmers markets etc, but with so many trees you would be able to. However, if you do plan to do this I would suggest that you plant more than one tree of each of the most promising saleable varietes, in order that you can offer meaningful quantities of fruit to retailers etc.
If you're short of cash for buying more trees, graft your own. It only delays matters by a year or two.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about own root seedling apple trees being a source of disease. Getting them to grow and fruit is great fun and a rewarding journey into the unknown.

[Sylvan]

We have planted 20 MM106 rootstocks. I thought I might start by trying to graft from the big old tree we have in our current garden. Would it work with a very old tree?

[FB.]

We have planted 20 MM106 rootstocks. I thought I might start by trying to graft from the big old tree we have in our current garden. Would it work with a very old tree?

Yes, as long as you can find healthy vigorous young shoots.
You can often encourage an old tree to produce some by winter-pruning about a quarter of its canopy using heading cuts which will stimulate vigorous new shoots which are ideal for grafting. The more vigorous the shoot the better it seems to "take" when grafted.

Grafts from weak-growing or cankered trees don't take as well. Cankered trees seem as if they somehow carry canker in what looks like healthy wood and the grafts often subsequently develop canker in the first few years after grafting. Because of this, old books strongly advise against taking grafts from old trees which have anything more than a few small cankers present. Of course if it's a very rare variety you may just have to take a chance if you want to preserve it.

[boundtothesoil]

We have planted 20 MM106 rootstocks. I thought I might start by trying to graft from the big old tree we have in our current garden. Would it work with a very old tree?

Yes, if it is producing sufficient new growth to provide you with the cuttings (scions) to graft onto your rootstocks. However, you might want to consider grafting other varieties onto your stocks as well, or instead, particularly if your 'old tree' isn't a good/suitable variety for your new site. Plus you could 'stool' some of your rootstocks and produce more stocks for further grafting in future years. I've found that MM106 is a more productive 'stooling' rootstock than M26, but maybe this is a function of the climate in West Wales.

[Sylvan]

I think I'll just wait in that case, since I don't actually know what it is or how it will behave up there and there will be much nicer varieties to play with in a few years

[Sylvan]

Are we supposed to prune the trees when we plant them?