Fruit Trees in Big Containers - What's Posssible?

[seneca196]

This has been covered many times before, but thought I'd repeat it, but with my own particular query.

I've got 4 large containers that I'd like to put some fruit trees into. They can stay in them and when they need moving will probably be put into the ground. Here's what I have:

2 containers - 90 litres, 58cm wide, 45cm deep

2 containers - 160 litres, 80cm wide, 50cm deep


Which trees do you think would be suitable for them? I'm keen on an apple, pear, plum and gage.

Which forms would be good? bush, half-standard, pyramid? What are the commonly used forms for pots?

Which rootstocks are suitable for the different trees? I'm thinking M26, Quince C and Pixy for the 90 litre, but can I go bigger for the 160 litre eg. MM106, Quince A, and St Julian?

Would container or bareroot trees be preferable?

Roughly how long could they (depending on which rootstock) could they stay in their containers before being put into the ground or potted on?


Any advice and suggestions on suitable rootstocks and varieties would be welcome. Thanks

[orangepippin]

I've had a couple of apple trees on MM106 rootstock in 90L containers for several years. The containers prevent them getting very big, they are less than 2m tall (including the containers) and although around 5 years old they seem to have stopped growing. As a patio feature they are quite impressive but I would not say the trees are particularly happy.

[seneca196]

So, presumably a 160L would give them a bit more space and thereby make them a bit more healthy, larger and possibly happier? I assume the same applies to the equivalent pear and plum? They will eventually be set free to spread in the ground, just wanted them to develop for a while and see how they turned out.
What kind of watering, feeding regime would benefit them? I guess as they get bigger, repotting becomes more difficult, if not impossible? Interesting to know. This would be helpful for people who aren't fully decided on a final location, either because of future garden layout doubts, or just a means of having a tree if ground space is limited or non-existent eg. too much concrete!

[Bill HH]

We have a few members who specialise in growing in containers, i am sure they will be along soon.

[Bill HH]

Have a look at this...

Fruit for containers / RHS Gardening

[seneca196]

I had come across that page when looking for information, and took most of the points on board. Except perhaps for the repotting after 2 years and the weekly high potash feed for fruiting. With the scale and rootstocks I'm going for, I don't expect any fruit for a while.

Incidentally, Orangepippin - have you ever had anything from your unhappy 5 year old MM106s? As someone who obviously knows what they're doing, you're much more likely to succeed than I am. Was wondering if you were doing anything to try and promote fruiting? I fear in my case it may be, "wait and hope."

[boundtothesoil]

I've been using small containers (10 litres) to grow on MM106 and M26 rootstocks I've grafted for three years so far, without any problems I can see in terms of stunted growth etc. The containers are sunk into the soil, so there's a little root growth through the bottom of the pots. I apply a top dressing of a complete 9 month-controlled-release fertiliser in February and water weekly during the driest summer months. I've used even smaller pots (7 litre) for growing seedlings from pips, for four years now, training these like minarettes, simply to gain as much height as possible. Again, it seems to be working OK. I've done this rather than plant directly in soil primarily because I might move house in a year or two and want to take the trees with me. However, whenever I've ordered 'pot grown' two year olds from nurseries, they've never arrived in pots greater than 20 litres volume.

I suppose I'm suggesting that you can get away with growing in really small pots for several years.

[seneca196]

What a difference between pot sizes - you've done it with 10/7 L and I'm concerned about 160L ! Mine's were given to me, so I wanted to make best use of them and get, as close to their "full size" as feasibly possible. That possibly rules out sinking into the ground, moving about and even taking them with me to some place else. Though anything is possible. I like your watering/feeding regime and that's something I'll follow. I planned a mini orchard of 1 each of apple, pear, plum and gage. I might go for M106, QA, and St Julian for all four and see what happens. I think apples and pears will be ok, but don't know anything about plums/gages. Maybe pixy might be better for them. Though I seem to recall a previous thread in which someone had great success with plums in containers and got a great size and yield from them. Will have to trawl back and check. I'm getting some, good positive advice so far and am quietly confident it will work.
Keep the advice and suggestions coming folks. Many thanks.

[boundtothesoil]

What a difference between pot sizes - you've done it with 10/7 L and I'm concerned about 160L !

I'm sure that 'big is actually better' if you are growing for many years, want a largish tree and are not going to allow it to root through the base of the pot. My transitory set up is probably a bit risky, as if I forget to water in the summer, there could be adverse consequences, same with getting the fertiliser/feeding regime wrong. So far, all my 'small-pot-grown ' trees have been staked with bamboo canes, up to 7 ft high, depending on the height of the tree/seedling. The pots are planted into the soil rim to rim (i.e. very close) -It's like the set up I've seen in some nurseries selling trees in pots, although they never seem to sink the pots into the ground. Mine are sunk two-thirds into the soil. I think this helps to keep the pot from getting too hot in the summer, hence reduces my watering work.

[seneca196]

Hadn't considered the roots might venture down and out of the pot. Did you put your soil mix down to the entire depth, or use a layer of gravel in the bottom? I had planned on a soil mix of 3/4 top soil and a 1/4 mix of compost, well rotted manure and gravel, with an additional layer of gravel at the bottom. I'm placing them on a patio area to begin with and then placing them into their final position amongst a border of shrubs. The thinking being - they would find it difficult to grow in the ground amongst all the mature shrubs, but once established in the pots, the tree pot could live amongst the shrubs in a sort of peaceful harmony! (each plants roots unhindered by the others.)
Of course in a few years I may have changed my mind and found something else to do with them, but then they'd be already growing and hopefully getting close to fruiting. Or so my theory goes.

[boundtothesoil]

Did you put your soil mix down to the entire depth, or use a layer of gravel in the bottom? I had planned on a soil mix of 3/4 top soil and a 1/4 mix of compost, well rotted manure and gravel, with an additional layer of gravel at the bottom.

I have mainly used a 50:50 mix of topsoil (mostly obtained from mole hills) and a multipurpose compost, well mixed prior to filling the pots right down to the bottom, topped up every six months or so because the level seems to fall a couple of centimetres. I haven't used gravel at the bottom, partly because of what has been written about its ineffectiveness with respect to encouraging good drainage (not sure I believe this entirely), plus I knew that I wanted to have good, preferably continuous, contact between the base of the pot and the underlying soil I placed them in. I am keen that the roots can go looking for nutrients and water if they are in short supply due to my negligence.

[seneca196]

boundtothesoil - You have done really well and given me some useful ideas, particularly not putting gravel at the bottom and sinking the containers into the soil.

What's the "top dressing of a complete 9 month-controlled-release fertiliser in February" that you use? Is it a branded product? I had only considered the obvious fishblood, bonemeal, growmore or chicken manure pelleted varieties and a mulch of compost/well rotted manure.

I know it's slightly going against nature, but would an occasional mulch of grass clippings (nitrogen rich) be useful to increase the trees size? I wanted them to be tall in order to reach the relatively small amount of sunlight they would otherwise not get.

[boundtothesoil]

What's the "top dressing of a complete 9 month-controlled-release fertiliser in February" that you use? Is it a branded product? I had only considered the obvious fishblood, bonemeal, growmore or chicken manure pelleted varieties and a mulch of compost/well rotted manure.

The link below is to a thread from 2012 on feeding fruit trees in pots. Near the end I added a post about the branded controlled release fertiliser I use in some detail. However, I'm sure that the organic forms you mention would be as good or better, particularly from an environmental stand-point. One of the main reasons I chose a very precisely formulated fertiliser, was that I wanted to know exactly how much of each nutrient I was supplying over an extended time, given that I am growing the trees in such small pots.

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ots_63093.html

[seneca196]

hello,
thought I'd revive this thread to see how people are getting on with their mm106 in containers - particularly Orangepippin (you never did say which form you chose and did they ever fruit?) and boundtothesoil (have yours outgrown their 10l pots?)

Anyone with any other thoughts on the idea of large trees in large pots, I'd be very interested. Still planning on putting a growing a mm106 in a 100l container, as a pyramid, to be planted in the ground in 3 years!)

[AllInContainers]

Here's the trees I currently have in pots. They're are not all developed enough to fruit yet, but seem happy enough anyway ...

Apple - Jonagold
Apple - James Grieve
Cherry - Sunburst
Persimmon Kaki
Decaisnea Fargesii (Blue Sausage Fruit/Dead Mans Fingers)
Szechuan Pepper
Trifoliate Orange
Medlar - Nottingham
Mirabelle de Nancy
Dwarf Pomegranate
Dwarf Elder
Dwarf Quince
Fig - Brown Turkey