Espalier apple support posts

[JimmyO]

I want to create an espalier orchard of apples/pears, possibly 1-2 fan trained plums, in a 10m by 12m area in my garden.
There are no posts/walls to use for wiring so I would be starting from scratch for the support posts.
What I thought should work would be corner posts, each 100mm square, 2.4 in length with the bottom 0.6m secured in the ground with postcrete/metal spikes. The support wires would then be strung between these (one corner will have an access point for the mower, me etc, so may have a double post with a gap). Although as I think about my design it has developed from a rectangle to two triangles with a central avenue of autumn raspberries

Is this practical? Do I need intermediate posts along each side? There will be 3 or 4 trees along each side. What about diagonal support posts for the end posts?


Thanks!

[DuncanM]

Hi JimmyO,

I did something slightly similar to you, albeit it's just one length rather than 4 forming a square/rectangle. I think mine is ever so slightly short of 10m, but can't remember exactly how much now.

Is this something similar to what you were meaning (Albeit x4 to make a full shape)?
Here's a link to my thread with images:
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...r-trees-2.html

If so to answer your questions:
1) I used 100x100 posts that were 3m in length. I purposely dug a very deep hole for each one as the earth had been disturbed (dug out a concrete path) so it needed additional support. I concreted them in (without any metal bracket). 0.6m seems well buried to me.

2) I have used 3 posts per side as you can see from the images in the link above, I suspect/advise you do also.

3) I've not used any supporting diagonal braces for the posts, however I did over-tighten one bit of the cable after the posts had been in the ground for only 24 hours and I did pull it inwards ever so slightly, it's difficult to tell as that post is in the corner though. If you can do it I'd advise to, it will allow additional tension on your wires and it will only to keep the whole structure sturdy for longer but I wouldn't say it's a necessity.

4) Dunno if you've already got wire etc lined up but I used Gripple and found it very good to work with: Gripple Trellising System

Good luck

[JimmyO]

Thanks for the reply DuncanM.

Your arrangement looks good as does Gripple. As mine will be free standing with no fence or wall to provide wind shelter or support I think I'm definitely in need of diagonal supports. Although trying to find dimensions/designs on the internet isn't straightforward which suggests to me that I just do what I think will work as there's no definite right/wrong way about it, so long as the basics are right

Othr advice that I can find suggests wooden posts fine but will rot at base if in concrete but I'm reluctant to go for all concrete or metal posts on aesthetic grounds.

[DuncanM]

Yes wooden posts will rot in the ground eventually, at what point I don't know. Pretty much all posts for exterior use are treated though.

If money isn't an issue you can opt for hardwood posts which will last much longer than the standard softwood, although I'd still be surprised if you couldn't get at least 10 years with softwood.

Failing that, you can use a post spike - or some of the many other metal contraptions that allow you to create a stable concrete base and mount a wooden post on the surface.

[orangepippin]

Wooden posts will definitely rot. However this can vary from a few years to 10+ years.

It is perhaps worth asking yourself what the "support" posts are for. They can of course be used to provide support for the tree, which will then spend less energy growing wood and more on fruiting. This is the reason why most commercial orchards use support systems. If you remove the supports (in the summer at least), the trees usually snap.

However most back garden trained trees use semi-vigorous rootstocks which are, if you wish, quite capable of supporting free-standing trees. Therefore you don't have to provide an ultra-strong trellis which will support the tree. Instead you can use the trellis simply to provide a training framework to guide branches and shoots into the positions you want them. In this situation the tree continues to support itself to a large extent (although beware of side-on winds), and if you remove the trellis altogether it won't collapse in a heap.

[JimmyO]

Orangepippin
Thanks, that gives me some ideas and puts some of the info I could find in perspective.
I want stable posts as the plot is in full view of the kitchen window and it would grate if I looked out onto wonky posts. So at the moment I will probably go for wooden posts set in concrete with end post diagonals for stability. There's a good fencing supplies shop nearby who I hope will advise/sell me the stuff I need (Hartwells near Chipping Campden).
Just been looking at Walcots website for trees as have had good trees off them in the past and they are local. I might need to double the size!