apple tree

[4390evans]

Im thinkining of getting an apple tree for down the bottom of the garden. It gets the sun all day. Im after something really sweet preferably red, anyone got any ideas also should i start it from seed or buy one in grown? Im after a fast growing one if there is any such kind.

Thanks guys

[veggiechicken]

I can't help you with variety of apple but - you need to buy a tree. You'd wait for ever to grow a tree from a pip and even if it fruited it wouldn't taste anything like the apple you'd grown it from.

[Paulieb]

As veggiechicken said, you definitely need to buy a tree. All apple trees are propagated by grafting (or budding) onto a rootstock.

You could go to a garden centre, but for a better choice online is better. I'm due to receive an order from Keepers soon, and they have hundreds of varieties. Now is the best time to get one in the ground (up to March), and there'll be loads of bare root options available.

Don't necessarily buy a variety you're used to in the shop, though if you know you like sweet apples thats a start.

Up north you may want to focus on varieties that fruit a bit earlier, avoiding late fruiting varieties.

There are many forms (standard, half standard, bush, fan, etc) to grow your tree in, and a range of rootstocks to choose depending on your soil and how big you want the tree to be.

*Most good stockist will have the basic information regarding sizes, training a tree and rootstock attributes.*

[4390evans]

Ill look for Keepers now and have a look through, Ive never really ordered online and just picked up plants and veg as I go to the hard wear shop.

Thanks for the advice x

[FB.]

Im thinkining of getting an apple tree for down the bottom of the garden. It gets the sun all day. Im after something really sweet preferably red, anyone got any ideas also should i start it from seed or buy one in grown? Im after a fast growing one if there is any such kind.

Thanks guys

Seedlings are a gamble. They don't usually come true to type because they are a combination of two different parents - often the "father" in a commercial orchard will be a crab apple which won't help with fruit quality in its offspring.
If the seed is from a common variety it is less likely to have the strong disease resistance required in a home-growing situation. Many shop-bought apples need a warmer and sunnier climate than the UK, so their seedlings may inherit the same dislike of relatively cool, dull, damp UK weather.

If you want a fast-growing apple tree that will reach a large size, consider planting one on the vigorous M25 or MM111 rootstocks. Contrary to what "the books" say, apple trees grafted onto the most vigorous rootstock (M25) will also fruit at quite a young age if they aren't pruned too severely (pruning deters fruit bud formation).

Use the Keepers "advanced search" engine to look for apples with the characteristics you want:
Keepers Nursery UK | Fruit trees for sale | Buy Online | Mail order

Orangepippin have a similar search function:
How to find the perfect fruit tree for your garden

Remember that quoted sizes tend to be for trees grown:
1. In good soil.
2. Fed.
3. Watered regularly.
4. With the circular area under their branch spread kept clear of any other plants and mulched with compost each winter (apart from not mulching too close to the trunk to help avoid rotting the trunk).

Where are tree is in poorer conditions its growth rate and size will be much less. If a tree is planted in average soil, with very little care and with grass or other plants around it, it may be half the quoted size (or take 20-30 years to reach the quoted size).
The quoted size is at maturity (10-15 years) but if a tree is not pruned to keep it within its allowed space it will often continue to grow slowly for its whole life.
The huge old fruit trees that we see around us may be over a hundred years old and the lone lucky survivor of an old orchard where most of the companion trees died long ago and were a far smaller size when they died.

[4390evans]

What does it mean when It says 1 year maiden? Im thinking of getting the fiesta tree? what you recon x

[4390evans]

Thanks for that. We dug out a old hedge that was on the hill at the bottom of the garden and I sieved the soil (tedious I know) and I grew some veg on there last year but I think Im just going to get a nice apple tree and surround it with bee and butterfly flowers. my only worry is the soil is a little clay like.

Do you think a fiesta tree would do ok there?

[FB.]

What does it mean when It says 1 year maiden? Im thinking of getting the fiesta tree? what you recon x

I have a Fiesta.
It is very healthy (no pest or disease problems) and after a slow start it growth has gone into overdrive - it does very well here in mild, dry, sunny East Anglia in my slightly chalky/alkaline sandy-gravelly soil.
Fruit often suffers from bitter pit (but seems resistant to codling maggots, sawfly and wasps), the tree is becoming biennial and the flavour is nothing special - a very watered-down Cox flavour, although the texture of the flesh is good.
Fruit is best left in the cool of a shed or garage to retain its freshness because if brought in to room temperature it develops a "medicinal" TCP-like or even "earthy" taste after a couple of weeks and isn't nice to eat.
However, I hear many complaints about Fiesta suffering badly from disease (especially canker) in cold, damp climates and acid soil.
Would I replace my Fiesta if it died? No; I think there are better varieties out there.

A 1 year maiden is a tree that was grafted about ten months previously.
It is usually between 3-6ft (1-2m) tall depending on the vigour of the variety and the rootstock (the common MM106 would be about 3ft, MM111 about 4ft and M25 about 5ft; a few very vigorous varieties might reach 6-7ft in their maiden year) and about half-inch (1-1.5cm) thick.
It usually has few or no significant branching and usually requires several years of winter pruning to form up a head of branches.

The pictures below give a good idea of what to expect:
1. Typical appearance of a MM111 or M25 one-year maiden.
2. Typical appearance one year after planting, after pruning at a height of about 4.5ft to form a half-standard (about 4ft of the trunk is not visible).

[FB.]

Do you think a fiesta tree would do ok there?

More important than the variety, is how big you want it to get, how good your soil, and therefore which rootstock is likely to achieve what you want.

[4390evans]

oohh thats canny, Im wanting one about 8-12 foot to give us some privacy off the public walk way out the back but by the sounds of it, I think Ill have to look into soil improvement before I put a tree in.

[FB.]

oohh thats canny, Im wanting one about 8-12 foot to give us some privacy off the public walk way out the back but by the sounds of it, I think Ill have to look into soil improvement before I put a tree in.

If you can find apples on rootstock M116 it would be ideal, but this rootstock is still quite rare at the moment.
Probably the next best choice for your needs is MM106 (although it is not a rootstock which does well for me because it dislikes my dry sandy-chalky soil and dislikes the lack of rainfall we get here in Cambs).
MM106 seems to like a cool, damp soil (but not waterlogged).

You should be able to find plenty of two or three year old trees on MM106 but often trees older than a one-year maiden lose a lot of roots and after a year in your garden they may be no more advanced than a maiden.
A "bush" will have a trunk of about 2.5ft (70cm).
A half-standard will have a trunk of about 4ft (120cm).

MM106 isn't really suitable for full standards (6ft / 180cm trunk) unless the grafted variety is especially fast-growing or unless the soil and climate is especially good.

Blackmoor have quite reasonable postage (£10) for small single-tree orders:
Eating Apple Trees For Sale, Buy Online

(you could also order some rootstocks for grafting something else in case your first tree fails)
Rootstocks For Grafting Fruit Trees

I disagree with Blackmoor's size guides. I think they're quoting how big the tree will get in perfect growing conditions with a full feeding, watering and spraying routine.
In "average" conditions I'd suggest mature sizes around two-thirds of what Blackmoor quote.
So M9 about 2m, M26 about 2.5m, MM106 about 3m and MM111 about 4m.
You can keep a tree to about half its potential size with the correct summer pruning technique - that's how fans, espaliers and cordons are kept small, compact and under control.

[Veggielot]

Just had a look a Keepers website. Really useful information particularly for recommending varieties for the not so sunny Blackpool. Worth a look even if you don't get a tree from them.

[FB.]

Just had a look a Keepers website. Really useful information particularly for recommending varieties for the not so sunny Blackpool. Worth a look even if you don't get a tree from them.

Worth noting that although the Keepers search engine lists varieties known to have certain resistances or climate tolerances, there are many varieties with equal or even superior resistance or tolerance of certain climates but which haven't been officially documented as such.
Sometimes different climates and soils can make a variety behave very differently; some thrive in cold wet climates but dislike hot dry climates, while others thrive in hot dry climates but dislike cold wet climates.
In some cases, my own growing experiences do not agree with the "official" view; quite often the modern varieties appear to have strong disease resistance when first planted but their inbred nature and being from a narrow gene pool (mostly bred from Cox or Golden Delicious) means that the diseases tend to quickly mutate and bypass the disease resistance.

One such example was Winston (supposedly Cox x Worcester - both common varieties) which I trialled for a few years but quickly abandoned due to its disease resistance starting out strong but failing after a few years; scab became a problem.

Similarly, I found Suntan (Cox x Court Pendu Plat) to be susceptible to mildew but the official view is that it is resistant.

On the other hand, I've found resistance to woolly aphids in some varieties, but I have not seen it documented anywhere else; Fiesta (Red Pippin) and Golden Delicious both have good resistance to this pest. Fiesta also seems to be resistant to codling maggots.....and it can be rooted from cuttings taken from several-year-old wood (preferably from a fairly horizontal-growing branch) as long as the cutting includes an internode with burrs.

Many very old varieties - a lot of which are triploid or probably "undiscovered triploids" - don't have anything listed for disease resistance (mostly because nobody has done the scientific testing), but in my experience being old, rare and triploid usually means very strong disease resistance, especially to scab and mildew - and often canker too.
When grown in gardens those oldies often have scab resistance equal to the most resistant of the modern varieties that have been carefully bred for scab resistance, plus the old-timers often have good resistance to mildew and canker, which seems to be absent (and a major weak point) in many modern varieties.

[TrialAndError]

One further thought, if you are planning only one apple tree make sure there are others nearby to pollinate it. In most built up areas this will not be a problem but in some rural areas it may be.

Self-fertile varieties get round this problem to a great degree.

Don't be put off Fiesta, it is an excellent healthy tree producing delicious tasting apples. I have a Fiests and a Cox's and in blind tastings it's very difficult to tell the difference in taste and texture. Several people prefer the slightly less acidic Fiesta to the Cox. Also, Cox's suffer far more problems compared to Fiesta.

Keepers describe Fiesta as "A crisp, juicy, sweet apple which keeps extremely well. A good heavy cropping garden variety".

Blackmoor describe Fiesta as "An outstanding new variety for people who would like to grow Cox's Orange Pippin but can't. Received the Award of Merit from the Royal Horticultural Society in 1987. Cox is one of the parents and all of the aroma and nuttiness are present. Heavy cropping variety ......"

Chris Bowers and Sons describe Fiesta as " ..... The flavour is quite superb. Fiesta is very easy to grow in all areas, very heavy cropping and very free flowering, a superb garden variety ...."

The RHS have this to say about Fiesta "A superb selection for the home gardener and considered a superior alternative to ‘Cox’s Orange Pippin’ (although the fruits are larger). It crops well when young, sets fruit in cool springs and yields almost twice as much as a Cox. Fruits can be stored from October into January and beyond. It is a good pollinator and is even partially self-fertile. Need I say more? Another from East Malling. Group 3."

If you are a first time apple tree grower my advice would be to initially stick by what the RHS recommend. They rate 10 top apple trees on this page:

10 AGM apples / RHS Gardening

Another choice apple tree (also on the RHS list above) which grows very well and produces superb red, crunchy and very tasty apple apples is Falstaff (Red Falstaff produces even redder apples).

[FB.]

On the subject of "top ten" apples; if I moved but stayed within Cambridgeshire, I definitely plant as many of the following again:

Very early:
Gladstone, White Transparent*

Early:
Irish Peach

Early-mid:
Laxton's Epicure, Grenadier**

Mid:
Emperor Alexander*, Gravenstein*, Herring's Pippin*, Reverend Wilks**

Mid-late:
Gascoyne's Scarlet*, Ribston Pippin

Late:
Blenheim Orange*, Jupiter, Spartan, Tower of Glamis*, Winter Gem

Very late:
Alfriston*, Anne Elizabeth*, Ashmead's Kernel, Belle de Boskoop*, Bernwode's Milton Wonder*, Brownlees Russet, Coeur de Boeuf*, Court Pendu Plat, D'Arcy Spice, Edward VII*, Hambledon Deux Ans*, Norfolk Beefing*, Tydeman's Late Orange, Winter Majetin**.

* = dual-purpose
** = cooking only
Note that most late-keeping "cookers" often become "eaters" after a few months storage; early and mid-season cooking apples don't usually have a long enough shelf life to reach the "eater" stage.
Many "eaters" can be used for cooking if they are picked a few weeks under-ripe.

(on MM111 or M25 rootstock because MM106 and more dwarfing rootstocks don't usually do well here unless intensively managed)

(but note that what does well in one region might not do well elsewhere - East Anglia is generally a much more "continental" autumn climate where the ultra-late-keepers can often be ripened to perfection)